Author Topic: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set  (Read 2062 times)

gatesphere

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Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« on: August 06, 2014, 12:39:13 PM »
So, the Three Kingdoms Period of China is fascinating to me.  What's more, this is a period that is woefully underutilized in wargaming, be it minis or board.

It would be a departure from the usual Historical sets, in that there would be (at least) 3 factions to represent: Wei, Shu, and Wu.  Perhaps single-faction decks could work, or better yet (imo): a three-player capable base set!  Think of the possibilities!

Included could be a scenario booklet that covers the major battles of the period, including the Battle of Red Cliffs.

Just a thought...

(Also, this is my first post here.  Neat place you've got here... :))

Kevin

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 05:50:47 PM »
Welcome to the Forum, gatesphere!

Not sure if you were aware, but the Wuxing Empire is a fantasy faction based on ancient China.  There's Kickstarter campaign going on at the moment, where you can pre-order it here.

Up to now, the historical sets which come out involve a clash of cultures so that the armies are very different.  Apart from Rome/Carthage and Alexander/Persia, the next historical faction in the pipeline is Spanish/Aztecs.  I don't know much about the 3 Kingdoms period, but am guessing that it was a civil war with pretty similar technologies.  I could be wrong--were there substantial differences between the three?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 11:11:05 AM by Kevin »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

gatesphere

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 09:06:39 PM »
Already a (largish) backer of the Wuxing project :)  In truth it probably satisfies most of the itches I'm looking for.

You're right that it would mostly be a situation of similar technologies clashing -- however, funding between the three kingdoms was different by a large gap.

Now I'm feeling like it would be better served with a set of Wuxing-only scenarios... Hmm.

Kevin

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 09:20:19 PM »
For what it's worth, there's a quick-and-dirty way to have more human units in the Wuxing faction.  I'll be putting this online once Wuxing comes out, but you get a sneak peek!   :)

Quote
The Wuxing army is considered an Expeditionary Force.  So constructs are useful because they don't need to be supplied with lots of food.  If the Wuxing Empire ever were invaded, their human soldiers would join the fight.

To get Wuxing human infantry, take Hawkshold Militia, Bowmen, Swordsmen, and Spearmen, and do the following changes:

- Remove the ability to give them Bravery.
- Add one yellow box.  (This simulates the units having a bit more soldiers than corresponding Hawkshold units.)
- In the Wuxing army, these units are "standard," not Core.
- These units are considered Wuxing units, not a mercenaries, so, for example, they can benefit from all Wuxing Command cards.

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You also could do Wuxing vs. Hawkshold and pretend that Hawkshold is a rival Chinese kingdom which doesn't have constructs.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

gpman

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 09:55:58 PM »
oh if only Hawkshold weren't out of print  ;) :P  Looking forward to Wuxing more than I thought I would (searched everything terracotta warriors on Netflix  ;D)
wack falol da rah!

Karasu

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 05:45:29 AM »
I'm tempted to say that the way to represent the three kingdoms is one set of troops and three different Command decks and Army abilities, possibly also different core/elite choices.

Really, the troop types come down to
Cavalry with lances
Light Cavalry with bows
Infantry with spear and shield (come in levy and experienced versions?)
Infantry with repeating crossbows (Come in levy and experienced versions?)
Infantry with bows
Skirmishers with bows
Skirmishers with javelins
Fanatics with swords
Allied tribesmen
It might be interesting to include some cards representing field fortifications, since they made use of them all the time in Three Kingdoms.

The interesting part would be the command decks and army abilities: flanking, ambushes, fire attacks, borrowing 10,000 arrows.

Shu are known for being smaller but well led.  Maybe give the option to buy extra command actions?

Hannibal

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 12:32:25 PM »
Yeah the same problem you have with Three Kingdoms is the one you have for the Hellenistic Successors: not enough variety.  If it were done, my suggestion would be to create like 15 units and then have each faction choose 12 of them.  The arrangement of which units are Core, Standard, & Elite can give a lot of variety.  But it would still likely be an uphill fight to get it printed, because the Command Cards would soak up a lot of space in the release.  Also, sadly, there's a reason why Three Kingdoms is an underutilized period:  the vast majority of gamers are Western.  Chinese history might as well be Lord of the Rings to us.

gatesphere

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 07:56:23 AM »
Also, sadly, there's a reason why Three Kingdoms is an underutilized period:  the vast majority of gamers are Western.  Chinese history might as well be Lord of the Rings to us.

Honestly, that's a good chunk of the appeal to me ;)  But I get where you're coming from.  Grognards want accuracy (or at least a dose of it), and Fantasy gamers want something a bit more removed from reality.  That leaves the perfectly historical but unfamiliar bits of Eastern history out in the rain.

Karasu

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Re: Historical: Three Kingdoms of China set
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 10:26:57 AM »
In interesting idea would be to figure out how to represent the armies, with the units available.

I think the cavalry forces of the three kingdoms period would be a split between Hawkshold Light Cavalry and Wuxing Jun Horse Archers.  Possibly some Imperial Cavalry for the elites.

The foot troops would be Persian Kardakes for the better trained spear and Dark Elf Slave Troops for the levies.  The massed crossbows are actually more like Hawkshold Bowmen then any of the actual Battleground crossbow units.  Likewise, the occasional skirmishers are more like Carthaginian Moorish Archers.  The possible spear-throwers would look like Roman Velites.

For more obscure stuff, your dare-to-die volunteers probably function quite like Ravenwood Wolfkin, of all things.  Nanman could be quite well-modeled by the Core Umenzi units.


Lets see if my memory serves on army composition:
Shu
Elite
Imperial Cavalry
Wolfkin
Umenzi Warriors
Core
Kardakes
Slave Troops
Hawkshold Bowmen
Moorish Archers
Wildmen Sword
Standard
Jun Horse Archers
Light Cavalry
Velites
Peasant Mob

Wei
Elite
Wolfkin
X
X
Core
Kardakes
Slave Troops
Hawkshold Bowmen
Jun Horse Archers
Light Cavalry
Standard
Imperial Cavalry
Velites
Moorish Archers
Wildmen Sword

Wu
Elite
Worthy
Umenzi Javilineers
Wolfkin
Core
Kardakes
Slave Troops
Hawkshold Bowmen
Moorish Archers
Wildmen Sword
Standard
Umenzi Warriors
Velites
X
X


How's that?