Author Topic: Oathbound...a new idea  (Read 17744 times)

gornhorror

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Oathbound...a new idea
« on: July 21, 2014, 11:55:18 AM »
What about this for the Oathbound command card.

Up to 3 of your units get +2 courage for the remainder of this turn.

OR

Re-roll a failed courage check for one of your units.  This unit receives a bonus to it's courage equal to the number of units your opponent currently out-numbers you by.



This gives it a little boost and also goes along with the thematic aspect of the card.  Something like the word "Oathbound" should translate into something better than a crappy courage card.  Especially when you compare it to some of the other ones out there.  Since the High Elves are almost always out numbered, this bonus will be a decent one when they need it the most.

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Kevin

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 04:23:51 PM »
Considering that using Oathbound as a reroll with no bonus was considered too strong last year, I'm not sure why Oathbound as a reroll with sometimes a bonus will fly.  But YMMV.

For what it's worth, I still plan to use Oathbound as a pre-roll autopass.
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gornhorror

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 07:27:11 PM »
It wasn't considered too strong by me.   ;D   ....and I play the faction all the time.   Even if it was like the Orc, "I kill you meself" card it would be ok.    Taking a damage point, or some other drawback, to keep the engagement, would be something to consider for Oathbound also.
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gull2112

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 11:03:30 AM »
The problem as I see it is not that there are not potential tweaks to the HE, but that there is no need to errata this deck. You jersey boys play so often that you're hypersensitive to the slightest nuance. The more a game is errata-ed, the more it is perceived as flawed by newbies. You should just homerule such things and when the deck needs to be reprinted we can revisit some of these tweaks.
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RushAss

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 11:47:53 AM »
We do house rule these things from time to time.  In fact, this topic was posted in the...


...wait for it...

House Rules, Unofficial Variants and Proposals thread

 ;)
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gull2112

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 12:52:26 PM »
Whoops, my bad. I thought we were in the "Gornhorror's marching orders for Chad" thread.  :D
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gornhorror

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 01:02:50 PM »
Here's another idea for Oath-bound.


Each of your units get +2 courage of the remainder of the turn.

OR

Play on one of your units that has just failed a rout check.  This unit still suffers the free attacks but keeps it's facing and disengages up to 1.25" after combat.


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RushAss

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 02:54:57 PM »
Considering that using Oathbound as a reroll with no bonus was considered too strong last year, I'm not sure why Oathbound as a reroll with sometimes a bonus will fly.  But YMMV.

For what it's worth, I still plan to use Oathbound as a pre-roll autopass.

Do you still get the option of having your units gain +2 courage if you don't play it as an auto-pass?
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Kevin

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 04:08:47 PM »
Quote
Quote
For what it's worth, I still plan to use Oathbound as a pre-roll autopass.
Do you still get the option of having your units gain +2 courage if you don't play it as an auto-pass?

Aye.
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RushAss

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 04:54:45 PM »
Aye.
OK, thanks.  I actually prefer that one.  For one thing it's simple.  For the other, the flavor fits.  For the auto-pass option I get this imagery:

"You!  Yes YOU!  You WILL hold!  There is no other option!  I BIND YOU TO YOUR OATH!"
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gull2112

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 09:37:02 PM »
Or maybe the dead turn green, get back up, and float around with some Returned King.

Whether or not these variations are house-ruled in, I like their flavor and hope they get incorporated in some future faction's faction specific deck.
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gornhorror

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 02:50:06 PM »
I still say that a courage re-roll is in order for this faction. You need a way to have a good chance to save a unit when that 14-18 comes up.  If Oath-bound was in an army where there were tons of expendable units(i.e. Historicals, Dark Elves, Umenzi, etc), I'd say ok.  But obviously it's not.  I've played them enough to know.  A 13 courage around the horn seems nice, but they still are making their first rout check at a 12.  (Except for Celestial Guard at a 13 and Cygnets at an 11, buy hey, who plays Cygnets)
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Dave-SWA

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 10:06:15 PM »
Jeez...  The faction with the highest average courage in the game is that faction that least needs a courage re-roll card.

Brook, please look at it from the perspective of the guy playing against the High Elves.

The HE units are less numerous, yes, but they are almost always higher quality, and they have above-average courage.

That guy needs a hope of a breakthrough somewhere.

Every faction needs a few weaknesses for balance.  Otherwise they are unbeatable, and thus no fun to play against.



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gornhorror

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2014, 05:15:29 PM »
Where are the weaknesses in the historical factions?  The Alexander faction has a ton of command cards that boost courage.  Not to mention some units with a base 13 courage also.  Now throw in the faction ability of Inspiration which gives a +1 courage while it's checked and it's seems that real courage of that faction is pretty darn  good.   Oh, and don't forget about the command card, We Few, which allows a reroll at a +1 courage(or better if it's engaged with more than one unit).  So what if the High Elves have overall better units.  It doesn't do them any good whatsoever if the opposing armies units never rout.   A good player with 10 so so quality units against a player with 7 quality units still has an advantage in this game.  Especially if he has courage bailouts and is pinching his opponent.  I'm just trying to even this score up. 

It's not because I'm an ELF LOVER as you have said in the past. :)

It's just because those are the factions that I play the most and I've noticed where they are weak, and where I think they are TOO weak. 

 

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Hannibal

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Re: Oathbound...a new idea
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2014, 06:03:14 PM »
Every faction needs a few weaknesses for balance.  Otherwise they are unbeatable, and thus no fun to play against.

Preach on, brutha man!  



Where are the weaknesses in the historical factions?  The Alexander faction has a ton of command cards that boost courage.

Well, let's see...just going with Alexander:

--No 187pt Battle Squad type unit.
--No Maneuver Mastery or Sprint.
--No beefy (5)6/6 infantry unit.
--No affordable baseline, 200pt unit.
--No decent unit that can go into terrain.
--Ponderous rule on most of its line infantry.
--Only one Pow 6 unit in the faction.
--Lots of high cost units that reduce the size of your army.
--D:1/2 on its best cavalry unit.
--Toughness 1 on most of its infantry units, making them vulnerable to Accuracy (which has no counter) and Flanking (which you felt unfairly punished Def Skill factions).

But yeah, other than that, this historical faction has no real weaknesses.


Quote
The Alexander faction has a ton of command cards that boost courage.  

Most of the courage boosting cards are +1 Cge.


Quote
Not to mention some units with a base 13 courage also.  

4 out of 12.  Vs High Elves' 14 out of 15.  (Okay, technically, it's 13 out of 15, because the Celestial Guard don't have Cge 13...)


Quote
Now throw in the faction ability of Inspiration which gives a +1 courage while it's checked and it's seems that real courage of that faction is pretty darn  good.  

Yes...Inspiration is pretty darn good.  +1 Cge for 1 CA is pretty darn good.  I mean, if there was a High Elf card that gave +2 Courage for 1 Command Action, I imagine you'd have to conclude that it's pretty darn double good...?


Quote
Oh, and don't forget about the command card, We Few, which allows a reroll at a +1 courage(or better if it's engaged with more than one unit).  

Yes, that's true.  So when those D:3/1 Foot Companions or D:1/2 Companion Cavalry get pinched, We Few will give them a better bonus because they're engaged with two opponents.  Who are pinching them.


Quote
A good player with 10 so so quality units against a player with 7 quality units still has an advantage in this game.  

Except that those units won't be the same quality.  10 or so quality units in a 2000pt game means an average cost of 200pts per unit.  7 quality units means an average cost of 285pts per unit.  The High Elves are quite capable in holding off the extra units on the flank while achieving a breakthrough in the middle.  Especially now that Flank from Front is gone.



At the end of the day, this is a house rule section.  So, hey, knock yourself out.  Whatever you can convince Marcus & Tim & the others too, more power to ya, brother.  But I agree with Dave that High Elves don't need the help, so this sort of idea would have to stay firmly in the house rules.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 06:05:51 PM by Hannibal »