Author Topic: Kickstarter is live!  (Read 11626 times)

Chad_YMG

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2014, 09:52:19 AM »
As I said in the Kickstarter, Battleground is a niche product.  That's OK, but I need to be very careful about avoiding niche factions within a niche product.

And Chad is right to have such a high level of caution.  Solid data on customer preferences is really hard to come by in this industry, and so he was right to be wary of whether or not there was enough demand for a historical faction like this.  Personally, I felt that there has always been a strong desire for ancient armies, but in all honesty it was just intuition.  Putting this goal on the kickstarter was a test to see if there was the demand for it.  My hope is that if we don't make it but get close, that's enough to greenlight the project for its own kickstarter.

And as much as I hate to start down a path of "the revolution eating its children," I certainly hope that Spain vs Aztecs receives the same critical eye.  My personal intuition is that those two factions fall much more into the niche-of-a-niche category than hoplites or medieval knights.

My thought on Spain vs. Aztecs is that it has value beyond the popularity of those armies.  For fantasy players, the Aztecs feel a lot like a fantasy army and I think a lot of players will want to try out how we're handling muskets.  Another thing I've heard over the years is that historical gamers like the prospect of trying out a genre that isn't their main one.  When we launched the Second Punic War at Historicon most of our purchases were by people who had never played that and loved the idea that they could pick it up for fifty bucks.  Even if you've never given much of a look to Spain vs. Aztecs you know it was a huge campaign between two vastly different sets of forces, so I think there's a healthy element of "Man, I'd never get to do this with minis" which in turn strengthens the overall Battleground brand.

My hesitation on Greek Mercs was that without something like AvP they didn't really do that much.  But with AvP (and, with some stretching, the 2nd Punic War) you can explore a lot of historical territory.  So they fit really well as an AvP stretch goal.

I'm also pretty keen on reprinting Hawks with new art, and as much as our original vision was to avoid new versions I think I'd lean towards some small tweaks to the faction.  I'm less excited about doing that for other factions where, you know, we still have inventory.  :)  But as and when a faction runs out I like the idea of keeping them alive, or at least giving the Kickstarter community a chance to.

An interesting thing about Kickstarter is that it takes a non-trivial amount of effort and cost to do one.  For us we need to complete the art first, and that's one of our big costs.  So while I guess we could do a "coming later" stretch goal like we're doing with the Greeks we don't have the option of saying, "Hey, let's try a Kickstarter to see if people would go for an Undead Army with new art and tweaked Rats and Ghouls and if not then nothing lost."  It would cost us at least a couple thousand bucks just to ask the question.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

Hannibal

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2014, 10:59:22 AM »
Quote
My thought on Spain vs. Aztecs is that it has value beyond the popularity of those armies.  For fantasy players, the Aztecs feel a lot like a fantasy army and I think a lot of players will want to try out how we're handling muskets.  Another thing I've heard over the years is that historical gamers like the prospect of trying out a genre that isn't their main one.  

Well, I definitely bow to your superior breadth of exposure on that subject.  Mine is much more localized, so the (decidedly more ambivalent) reaction must be a deviation from the norm.


Quote
My hesitation on Greek Mercs was that without something like AvP they didn't really do that much.

Certainly.  I can see that.  I'd always assumed AvP was gonna happen.  It was just that when I was showing people Alexander or Persia, the one question that always got asked was "and when are they gonna do Spartans?"


Quote
I'm also pretty keen on reprinting Hawks with new art, and as much as our original vision was to avoid new versions I think I'd lean towards some small tweaks to the faction.

I know the original intent was to "do a faction once and then never make people buy an additional pack for them," but miniatures gamers tend not to look down on that.  In fact, there's actually an expectation of releasing new "editions" of armies among most miniatures gamers.  Paradoxically, miniatures gamers actually get excited when a new version of their favorite army comes out!  They don't see it as you soaking them for money, but rather their army "getting some love from the designers."  If anything, I'd caution against do too little when it comes to changes!  'Having to buy the new deck' won't generate much animosity at all, but 'they charged me $25 and only changed 1-2 units' will[1].  I know...miniatures gamers are weird...


[1] Obviously, I'd fully expect you to mitigate that to high heaven by allowing people to not only use their original army as legal (so people can't complain about being 'forced' to buy the new deck) and potentially even make the changed units/cards available without having to buy the whole set.  Still, I know that minis gamers will be happier paying $25 for a product that had all the right command cards, plus changed Greatswordsmen, Heavy Infantry, Pikemen, and potentially even an extra unit.


Quote
I'm less excited about doing that for other factions where, you know, we still have inventory.

Well, when I said "reprint" I was talking units that have typos and Command Cards.  Specifically, I was thinking not only of the erratas for Command Cards but new art for some of the early factions where the Command Card art is the same for all the Red cards, or all the blue cards, etc.  Of course, that may not be feasible because 1) we not still have the old art that we could just render new shots for Kaile to make into Command Cards, & 2) the cost of doing it.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:08:42 AM by Hannibal »

gull2112

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2014, 12:24:46 PM »
As a cost-free adjunct to this exploration of reprinting old decks, I think it would be a great sticky in the factions category in the forums for new ideas and comments on what people would like to see in a reprint of an older faction. It would stimulate activity in the forum and quell the fears of an ever spiraling progression of factions where if you didn't have the latest version you wouldn't be at a competition level. As long as BG players are as vigilant to play balance as they have always been, the likelihood of a new faction ability or unit being broken is much less.

I fully concur with Hannibal about people wanting new things and not thinking that they are being soaked in the process. As long as the original versions are viable, then what you are gaining with a "new deck" is diversity and shiny newness, always a good thing.

Finally, on my list of dream products would be a deck builder program that allowed you to create new armies and proxies for play-testing. This would allow a new army to get massively play-tested before it became so popular that a KS became the obvious next step. I know you can kind of do that now, as some have demonstrated, but it is beyond the skills and abilities of this and many other gamers.
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Chad_YMG

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2014, 12:47:49 PM »
We just past $12,000, making the project 400% funded.  $6,000 more to go (in four days) to release the Greek City-States to our roadmap!
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

Hannibal

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2014, 12:02:50 AM »
Pretty sure everyone here got the update, but we funded today at $14,000.  I'm impressed and oddly exhausted.

gpman

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2014, 09:00:45 AM »
November is there to give us some cushion.  I think the most likely timeline is roughly as follows:

Files sent to printer: End June.  The cards are done, but there's considerable rulebook work to do and a bit of work on Hill 218/Sector 219...but nothing major.  Plus we get Kaile for two days a week starting soon.

A month for printing gets us to end-July.

A month for shipping gets the product to US customs end-August.

Two weeks for customs gets the product to YMG mid-September.  That would mean product in customer hands in late September or early October.

just curious (and a wee bit over excited), where are the 3 kickstarters at now, approx?
wack falol da rah!

Chad_YMG

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 11:53:16 AM »
If you mean in production, we're on schedule.  We're doing final edits now and should be uploading files to print next week.  That should have them arrive here in late October or possibly early November, depending on the vagaries of customs.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

gpman

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 11:58:36 AM »
If you mean in production, we're on schedule.  We're doing final edits now and should be uploading files to print next week.  That should have them arrive here in late October or possibly early November, depending on the vagaries of customs.

yep, thx Chad, just can't stop thinking about BGFW right now.  ;D
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RushAss

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 02:43:20 PM »
It's a wonderful disease, isn't it?
"We are young wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time"
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gpman

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2014, 03:10:28 PM »
It's a wonderful disease, isn't it?

 :D yeah, it's worse than Christmas for a 5 year old.  November is never gonna get here  :-\
wack falol da rah!

elgin_j

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2014, 03:12:09 PM »
Has the backer survey been distributed yet?
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gpman

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2014, 03:15:32 PM »
Has the backer survey been distributed yet?

I haven't seen it yet

edit - oops this is the Alex vs Persia thread isn't it, I only backed Wuxing so maybe my reply wasn't relevant  :-[
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 03:22:30 PM by gpman »
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Chad_YMG

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 08:50:32 PM »
The AvP backer surveys are out.  Hill 218 is waiting for the retheme to be announced.  Wuxing will go out shortly.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

gpman

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 09:07:18 PM »
The AvP backer surveys are out.  Hill 218 is waiting for the retheme to be announced.  Wuxing will go out shortly.

thx for the heads up!  ;D (<-- really need a thumbs up emoticon  ;))
wack falol da rah!

elgin_j

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Re: Kickstarter is live!
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2014, 05:17:07 AM »
My mistake in asking - I thought this was the Wuxing thread. The answer has been given, though, so thank you.
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