Author Topic: Greeks vs Lizardmen: Total Warfare  (Read 1166 times)


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Greeks vs Lizardmen: Total Warfare
« on: January 18, 2014, 07:38:19 PM »
I know I've said this before...but this is our absolute last playtest with the Greeks for awhile.   8)

Going in the theme of "bad matchups for somebody" we decided to test out how the Greeks do against the Lizardmen.  With Blood Frenzy being a lot of points spent on bonuses they get when an enemy is not in the Green, the 6 Green box phalanxes should be a nightmare for the Lizardmen.  So we decided to see how bad it could be...

We ended up playing Total Warfare on the map with the two impassible rubble piles and a central hill (6D?).  This would constrict the board pretty severely.  Ironically, narrow frontages end up hurting the Greeks, as they really do need some of their flanking forces to put pressure on the enemy.

Lizardmen:  3 Tyrant Warriors, 1 Trog Spearmen, 1 Trog Warriors, 1 T-Rex

Greeks:  3 Athenian Hoplites, 2 Corinthian Hoplites, 2 Theban Sacred Band, 1 Thracian Cavalry

Greek units for reference:

Athenian Hoplites - Core - 202 pts
O:(7*)4*/5*  D:2/2  Rge:-  Cge: 12  Mv: 3.5"  6G/2Y/2R
Phalanx, Ponderous.

Corinthean Hoplites - Core – 295 pts
O:(7*)5*/5*  D:2/3  Rge:-  Cge: 12  Mv: 3.5"  6G/2Y/2R
Phalanx, Ponderous.

Thracian Cavalry – Standard - 127 pts
O:(3)5/4*  D:2*/1  Rge: 3.5”  Cge: 12  Mv: 7"  2G/2Y/2R
Cavalry, Javelins.  No Lock Shields box.  O:(+0)+0/+1  D: +1/+0 when charging.

Theban Sacred Band - Elite - 321 pts
O:(7*)5*/5*  D:3/2  Rge:-  Cge: 13  Mv: 3.5"  6G/2Y/3R
Phalanx, Ponderous.  If this unit marks a Green box from Deep Ranks, choose one Core unit with a Lock Shields box marked due to Deep Ranks.  That unit gets +1 Cge for the game.


Lizardmen (L->R):  Trog Spear, Tyrants, Tyrants, T-Rex, Tyrant, Trog Swordsmen

Greeks (L->R):  Corinthians, Sacred Band, Triple stack of Athenians, Corinthians, Sacred Band, Thracian Cavalry

This is a game of two people that know each other very well.  I knew that there was a T-Rex and that it was going on the hill, so I took 3 Athenians to soak up the damage for as long as possible.  Other than that, I was trying to set up dogfights where I could force checks on him before he put me into the Yellow, at which point I was done.  I took the Thracians and gave them the order to go wide around the right flank.  It was unlikely they'd do much, but if I put them on the left flank, the Trog Spearmen there would have them contained.

Okay so at this point, I want to say that this was not a game of great tactical maneuver.  The terrain had things so choked that it was really in both side's interest to go in, draw cards, and roll dice.  We pretty much went at each other and it was a race to see if I could punch a hole before the T-Rex chewed through the Athenians.

Some Time Later...

Skipping those turns of "move forward and draw cards" we get to the above picture.  My Thracian Cavalry reached their target and would start swinging around the rubble, while on the left flank I DC'd my Corinthians to peel back.

Stone Cold (Blooded) Charge

Almost across the line the Lizardmen go in.  On the left, the Trog Spearmen file in behind the Tyrants creating a Lizard-stack that would take me forever to chew through.

On the hill the T-Rex did a predictable 5 damage on the Athenians.  My Athenians failed their terror check, but I didn't anticipate doing much anyway.

On the right of the hill his Tyrants beat up on my Corinthians while his Trog swordsmen held back against my Theban Sacred Band.

The Not-So-Sacred Band

A few turns of grinding combat later has my Thracian Cavalry rear charge and pinch his Trog Swordsmen (who only have 1 red box left).  To the left, the Tyrants rout but I whiff on the dice.

On the hill, the T-Rex eats its second unit of Athenians.  Now I'm starting to think I'm gonna lose this race...

To the left of the hill, thanks to a bunch of lucky dice, my Sacred Band are put into the Yellow.  Courage 13.  Can't do it.   ::)   The Sacred Band are put in the Red, and they pass, but its the Lizardmen turn next... 

On the far left, I force a rout check on the Tyrants, but they pass. 

All Tests Passed...

This is a few turns later.  On the left, I destroyed the Tyrants and the Trog Spearmen stepped in.  I roll lucky again and force a Yellow check, but the beat up Corinthians are also put into the Yellow.

The Tyrants had charged the routing Sacred Band, destroying them, and followed up to pinch the Athenians destroying them.

On the other side of the hill my Corinthians flanked and pinched the T-Rex and put them almost all the way into the Yellow.  The T-Rex responds by turning to the side and doing a point of damage, causing a rout check.

To protect the flank of my Corinthians I was forced to let my Thracian Cavalry charge the Tyrant Warriors.  Unfortunately, 3 dice needing 3s and 2s wasn't enough to even cause a single point of damage.  The Tyrants put the Thracians all the way down into the red.

Despite 5 checks (4 of them mine), nobody failed.  I remember not to long ago where we had 6 checks where everyone failed.  A perfect example of how random dice actually aren't a smooth distribution.


The T-Rex is now free to roam around, having destroyed the Corinthians and able to close on the Theban Sacred Band.  Unfortunately for the T-rex, the Tyrants were in a kill-stealing mood.  After they destroyed the Thracians, the Tyrants put the Sacred Band into the Yellow.  Courage 13 check...can't do it.  And the Tyrants finish them off in free attacks.

On the other side of the board, the Trogs do 3 points (needing 3s and 2s) and erase the Fury to do 4 points, outright killing the Corinthians, ending the game with a 4-2 for the Lizardmen.

Post-Game Thoughts:

As with the Wuxing-Hawkshold fight, Scott's dice were just freaking hot.  He failed one check all day and was doing really well despite needing 2s and 3s or 3s and 2s in a lot of cases.  And me?  Well, I failed two Courage 13 yellow checks.

I'm mildly impressed that the Lizardmen can actually grind out a win against the Greeks.  But again, the way they have to do it is the way you win against the Greeks in general:  you need pips on the dice in your favor.  If the Greek player is rolling 3s and 3s, he's gonna give his opponent a really tough time.  But make those Greeks need 3s and 2s, and those 7 dice are much less scary.

And T4 with the dice charge...the Greeks simply don't have an answer for that.  In fairness, not many armies do, but the Greeks are in a tough spot that most of their hard hitting stuff doesn't have much in the way of durability.  They pretty much have the charge turn when on Hold, and after that they're rolling 1s.

I also like that the Greeks are more than just a "line up and go" type faction, that they have some units to work flanks with as a hammer and anvil style of fighting.  Its just that their hammer isn't very sturdy and can get outclassed by other people's cavalry or fats moving units.  Combine that with the fact that they have no Courage bailouts and they're a fairly brittle faction. 

Anyway, I'm happy for the moment with where Greeks are and I'm going to take a break to let some folks playtest them and tell me what they think.  I'll probably revisit them at some point, but for the moment, we're done playtesting the Greeks. 

Again this is NOT to say that playtesting is closed.  We're a long way away from that.  So if you want to play a game with them, please do.  I'll have a new draft up very soon.