Author Topic: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies  (Read 4830 times)

NegativeZer0

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No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« on: October 30, 2013, 09:51:09 AM »
Now that every army sold comes in a dbl sized army box there is no more need to have separate promo versions of these double sized cards.

Current Example:
Wuxing Dragons - There is no reason why a split card (2 card) version of this unit should ever need to be printed.  
The retail copy should include the full size "promo" card right in the box replacing the split cards entirely. 

The double size cards would go at the very bottom of the box then the cardboard divider for the remaining cards would sit on top of that. 
There is more then enough room for this to be done.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:53:11 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
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leemie

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 11:48:44 AM »
agreed.

Hannibal

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 12:27:37 PM »
I dunno, I'm kinda torn on this.  On the one hand, I agree that the double-size card looks cooler on the tabletop than the two cards.

On the other hand it presents an issue in terms of transport and use.  I transport my factions in standard deck boxes that can hold 3.5" x 2.5" cards.  And also, I sleeve every one of my units even though I use a dry erase marker.  I do this because if you forget to erase it, the ink doesn't want to come off.  And over time, units develop a lot of stray marking that don't completely get erase.  Also, I do demos and sometimes people aren't as diligent in erasing.

So if there were single card units done, I'd prefer that each box include both.

NegativeZer0

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 02:26:10 PM »
I still sleeve the back half of the double size cards.  Just cut one sleeve on one of the long sides and a tape the end that is normally open.  

I too transport my decks in deck boxes But I keep the one box for dark elves and all of my promo cards are in this one box.  I think the minor impact of transportation is way overshadowed by the benefits of having the full size card.

I would like to hear from Chad as to the cost side of this and if this would have any significant impact.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 02:28:35 PM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

Chad_YMG

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 02:43:49 PM »
I honestly don't know about the cost aspect.  The double cards would absolutely have to be printed separately, but that might not cost more (and could well cost less) at the printer than what we currently do, which is using an online postcard printer.  Right now we're snug in terms of room in the box so I don't know if we could add any double cards at the bottom and I'd be concerned about consistency between a set with no double-sized cards and one with multiples.  I absolutely don't want to have different-sized packaging for different factions or to give the impression that some factions are better than others because they come with extra double-sized cards.

With all that in mind, it sounds like a bit of a mess to me.  On top of that, I like having the promo cards be something a bit special that people pick up at conventions or by pre-ordering or through some other direct contact with YMG.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

NegativeZer0

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 02:50:59 PM »
...I'd be concerned about consistency between a set with no double-sized cards and one with multiples.  I absolutely don't want to have different-sized packaging for different factions or to give the impression that some factions are better than others because they come with extra double-sized cards.

This is why I'm bringing this fact up now.  
The decision would have to be made with wuxing.  
This is the first faction in the new packaging that would have a double card.  

The packaging itself has already changed and I am absolutely convinced there is room in the box since the single cards would be replaced.
(it is a 1:1 ratio - 1 double card is replacing 2 single cards, this should equate to exactly same amount of card thickness in the box)

I agree that the promo card were cool when they were a necessity due to the constraints of the packaging but we dont have this limitation anymore.

I hope you really take some time to think about this because whatever you decide to do with the wuxing would set the precedent for all future factions (for exactly the reason stated in the part I quoted).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 09:17:04 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
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Kevin

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 07:14:22 PM »
My own view is that double-sized single cards and double cards each have their own merits.  So my favorite option is to get both.  :)

If I can get both, I don't really care beyond that.  i.e. I don't care which one is part of the boxed set and which is the promo or if they're both boxed or whatever.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

Hannibal

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2013, 07:21:02 PM »
Kevin stated my point far more succinctly and clearly than I did.   ;D

I wouldn't be against getting the single card unit...if I got both. 

NegativeZer0

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 08:50:15 AM »
@kevin @Hannibal
The problem is that in order for this to keep costs the same or as close to as possible as well as having room in the box for everything I would assume (especially based on what chad said here) that the full size cards would have to REPLACE the split cards (if we do end up going this route I seriously doubt they would print split cards as a promo item).  Given this context would you choose to keep things as is?  Do you think the benefit of split cards is enough to continue warranting their printing now that the box allows for retail full size cards?

Personal opinion:
I'm not saying the split cards don't have a few pluses to them the obvious one being portability but in my opinion the benefits of the split cards are insignificant compared to the benefits of just having the full size card right in the retail box.
A lot has changed with this game over the few years its been out.  To me this is just a logical step in the progression of the game.  We have never had the ability to package full size cards in the retail box before.  Now that we do to continue printing the split cards just seems like we are holding onto an outdated necessity of the old packaging system.

Future of BG:
We also need to assume that the KS is going to be a huge success (or at least plan for that possibility).  
If the KS is a big success the size of the community playing this game could become much larger then it currently is.  We have a very small community right now and so the idea of the promo cards is cool because anyone that really wants one can get one.  If this game goes out to a much bigger community that will become less of an opportunity for everyone to get the promo cards and I really think everyone should have access to the full size cards.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 09:13:44 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

Hannibal

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 09:20:06 AM »
Quote
Given this context would you choose to keep things as is? 

If the choice was "can't have both" in a box, then yeah, I'd say stick with the status quo.  Because in that circumstance, I can still get my hands on the single card unit.  Chad literally gives those away to people holding events, be they at conventions or at events at your FLGS.  I agree that its kinda cool that the single card are special event only items.

Chad_YMG

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 09:57:20 AM »
@kevin @Hannibal
The problem is that in order for this to keep costs the same or as close to as possible as well as having room in the box for everything I would assume (especially based on what chad said here) that the full size cards would have to REPLACE the split cards (if we do end up going this route I seriously doubt they would print split cards as a promo item).  Given this context would you choose to keep things as is?  Do you think the benefit of split cards is enough to continue warranting their printing now that the box allows for retail full size cards?

I don't think I explained it very well.

The starting point is printing decks of cards.  This is done from a standard-sized sheet, using a standard die.  Printing double-sized cards will always require a separate printing process.  That might or might not add that much to the overall costs -- I'd have to ask the printer -- but it will definitely add something to the base cost.  (It might add less than we pay to do them separately here, though.)

Removing the split cards can't save any money -- all we would do is print more copies of other cards, since for any card printing where X is the standard number, printing X minus some smallish number just doesn't change your costs.  The printer still has to do as many setups and use as much paper -- if anything, not packaging all the cards the normal process works would make it more expensive since they have to remove some cards from the system before assembly.

Quote
Future of BG:
We also need to assume that the KS is going to be a huge success (or at least plan for that possibility).  
If the KS is a big success the size of the community playing this game could become much larger then it currently is.  We have a very small community right now and so the idea of the promo cards is cool because anyone that really wants one can get one.  If this game goes out to a much bigger community that will become less of an opportunity for everyone to get the promo cards and I really think everyone should have access to the full size cards.

I don't think this is necessarily true.  BGG.COM has said that they would be happy to carry Battleground promo cards (as they do for many other games), which would let people buy them for very little money.  If our community were to grow significantly it would also be possible to support a wider convention presence again, which would also make it easier for people to get them.  And, of course, anyone who actually did the KS would get them.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

NegativeZer0

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 10:08:06 AM »
Thanks for the input/details chad
Quote from: Chad_YMG
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Zos93

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 07:04:16 AM »
Hi Chaps, these sleeves https://maydaygames.com/card-sleeves/tiny-epic-kingdoms-card-sleeves.html fit the promo cards perfectly. Ok they aren't cheap if you only want a couple of sleeves but if you backed both Wuxing and AvP and got all the promos they're probably worth it.

gull2112

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 03:05:32 PM »
Welcome Zos, and thanks for the info! I had all kinds of strange ideas about what the cost might be when you said they were a little expensive, but for those who are curious it is $3.50 for 100. If I were to sleeve that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. The other thing that is cool is that you could tape the two cards of a doublecard unit together and then sleeve them as a single card. Nice!  8)
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Torrg

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Re: No more "promo" version of the double sized units in new armies
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 11:43:42 PM »
Thanks Zos for the info, I purchased the sleeves and they work great, very nice and worth it
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