Author Topic: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review  (Read 42175 times)

Quelmotz

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2009, 10:34:07 PM »
True, but the Umenzi generally have far more green health, so they can drag it on before having to take their first check. If you are REALLY REALLY REALLY desperate, you can always FA a warrior unit (for example) in the green, and after it takes its damage, FA again and have all the shamans/high priests heal him back to full health. And at that point the warriors effectively have 7+ green health!!!!

Also, I'm a strong believer that a FAed and constantly healed back to full health Chosen will never drop out of the green (unless its really unlucky or something). But at that point, the enemy will be so fed up that he'll be sending a ton of fast units around the side to kill those pesky shamans/high priests...

I don't disagree with any of this, but you should note two rules that you might not be aware of because people often miss them:

-You can only heal someone once per turn.
-You can't heal a guy with Faith Armor on him.

Oh crap...there goes my plan...  :'(

On the bright side, about 5-6 green health is still great...
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

Niko White

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2009, 10:35:03 PM »
True, but the Umenzi generally have far more green health, so they can drag it on before having to take their first check. If you are REALLY REALLY REALLY desperate, you can always FA a warrior unit (for example) in the green, and after it takes its damage, FA again and have all the shamans/high priests heal him back to full health. And at that point the warriors effectively have 7+ green health!!!!

Also, I'm a strong believer that a FAed and constantly healed back to full health Chosen will never drop out of the green (unless its really unlucky or something). But at that point, the enemy will be so fed up that he'll be sending a ton of fast units around the side to kill those pesky shamans/high priests...

I don't disagree with any of this, but you should note two rules that you might not be aware of because people often miss them:

-You can only heal someone once per turn.
-You can't heal a guy with Faith Armor on him.

Oh crap...there goes my plan...  :'(

On the bright side, about 5-6 green health is still great...

Oh yeah, your point is still good, Umenzi guys are very tenacious!

Quelmotz

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2009, 10:47:53 PM »
True, but the Umenzi generally have far more green health, so they can drag it on before having to take their first check. If you are REALLY REALLY REALLY desperate, you can always FA a warrior unit (for example) in the green, and after it takes its damage, FA again and have all the shamans/high priests heal him back to full health. And at that point the warriors effectively have 7+ green health!!!!

Also, I'm a strong believer that a FAed and constantly healed back to full health Chosen will never drop out of the green (unless its really unlucky or something). But at that point, the enemy will be so fed up that he'll be sending a ton of fast units around the side to kill those pesky shamans/high priests...

I don't disagree with any of this, but you should note two rules that you might not be aware of because people often miss them:

-You can only heal someone once per turn.
-You can't heal a guy with Faith Armor on him.

Oh crap...there goes my plan...  :'(

On the bright side, about 5-6 green health is still great...

Oh yeah, your point is still good, Umenzi guys are very tenacious!

Whats that word?

:P

It means resilient, for those who don't know.

It seems like my favorite punctuation is "..." . I use it all the time.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

RushAss

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2009, 09:29:31 AM »
I wish I can get the Elves of Ravenwood and Dwarves of Runegard as soon as possible... Though that "ASAP" is August  :'(
That's because you're so cheap ;)

I think you'll really have a ton of fun with both of those factions and it's cool that you plan on getting them together because they are so different from one another.
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Quelmotz

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2009, 08:58:50 PM »
I wish I can get the Elves of Ravenwood and Dwarves of Runegard as soon as possible... Though that "ASAP" is August  :'(
That's because you're so cheap ;)

I think you'll really have a ton of fun with both of those factions and it's cool that you plan on getting them together because they are so different from one another.

Grrr...

Dwarves (stereotypically - I mean factually (other than antonians)) are slowpokes, but when they engage, and if they engage without getting pinched or badly weakened by archery, they'll destroy anyone at their point cost with ease.

Actually, the Dwarves of Runegard in BG:FW are highly un-stereotypical, if there's such a word. Dwarves suck at archery, I repeat, SUCK at archery (other than crossbows). Dwarves are so short, they'll have to be using pikes to hit horsemen as well as normal humans using spears. And the Dwarves of Runegard have both of these units, and the bowmen are the stock average bowmen and the spearmen are ABOVE AVERAGE! Of course, these are just stereotypes, and there's nothing stopping YMG from saying, well, dwarves are strong, so they can wield pikes with 1 hand, and well, the Dwarves of Runegard are quite well trained in archery, for example.

Elves of Ravenwood (stereotypically) can field a ok line just to hold up the opponent, while sending some fast units like wolf packs, centaurs, stag cavalry, bear packs, etc around the flanks to smash into the opponent VERY HARD (unless you're using wolf packs...).

TOTALLY different factions, IMO.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

GoIndy

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2009, 08:34:03 AM »
Ok, here is what I found out about the Ravenpansies after playing them this weekend.

1)  Centaurs are awesome
2)  Brownies do NOT always overperform
3)  The core units suck

Among the other units I had, I fielded 3 ravenwood spears.  Generally, I am a big believer in Spearman, but this was awful.  One faced up against a Skeletal troll, got absolutely demolished.  Sure, the Troll outpointed by 100, seems reasonable.  The next one faced a Zombie Troll, was hanging in there, but was losing.  The last went up against a ghoul pack, got annihilated by the ghouls.

Gotta tell you, I was not pleased with my line.  Oh, had a unit of Ravenswords, who also went up against a ghoul pack....they were destroyed as well. 

The Centaurs were in essence my only unit doing a freaking thing.  They killed off a Zombie troll, and then one shotted a zombie unit, but no way were they going to be able to fend off the rest of the undead hoarde. 

I'll prob never play the Ravenelves again, unless I can somehow miracle a Centaur into another faction as a merc.

RushAss

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2009, 09:31:57 AM »
I think your line units under-performed.  And besides, you fielded Archers AND Bowmasters. 

Dummy ;)

Give them another try.  The Treant is calling.  Maybe toss in a Bear Pack or two and leave the Centaurs at home (due to points) and give the Stags a whirl.  If you like Antonians, you'll like the Stags.
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A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
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Niko White

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 09:33:38 AM »

Those line units must have underperformed.  Unless there was a huge command card deficit, I can't imagine how your Elves managed to lose to the Ghouls; they're way better.

GoIndy

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2009, 09:39:12 AM »
They managed.

There really wasn't a big command card deficit, due to Undead reanimation.  One issue that happened is that I drew alot of accuracy cards, which weren't helpful at all.  Needed some force!! 

If Marcus puts the pictures up, I'll detail what happened.

Of course, on a related sidenote, Longbeards completely suck as well.  And of all units that incur the wrath of an ancient red dragon, the evil mercenary leader targetted my freaking healer mages as his side collapsed.

I'm gonna have to buy more markers, I used up a small countries GNP in marker ink registering all the wounds my units took as they collapsed.

RushAss

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2009, 09:56:40 AM »
I'll have a report of both games up later in the week, but here's what I have as far as images go.  Unless you want to do the write up yourself!









"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

GoIndy

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2009, 02:08:13 PM »
Ok...Hopefully you can follow along with the pictures Marcus posted.  I'm only going to talk about what happened on the Undead/Ravenwood side.

First off, like most of our large battles, you never need as long as line as you would "normally".  Now, in most factions, I'd have some serious heavy hitters somewhere, but Ravenwood actually has two issues that don't lend well to this...
1)  No cheap core units so you can field a super strong line
2)  No expensive core units so you can field a super strong line

Now, I was convinced I could totally rule all with the centaurs, and my hope was that line would hold up just well enough for my centaurs, and maybe even a brownie, to get around and start total annihilation.

My plan was to use my superior ranged firepower, (1 reg archer and 1 bowmaster), to help the Centaurs punch through the flank, and than as my line started to degrade, use them to start to whittle down the enemy as my flankers finished him off.  Best laid plans of mice and men and all that....Because I had superior ranged firepower to everyone the board, but I still wanted to protect my allies flank, I slowed my advance to 2.5.  (Even the centaurs)  I gave my range guys close to short range and specifcally targetted the outside troll.  I started the brownies out to the edge, to engage the ghoul pack. 

So...first problem...the Zombie trolls are 1-4.  I never drew any force cards, so to damage the trolls needed a freaking 1.  I did okay, I'd routinely land 6-7 arrows, and score 1-2 ones, but it was hardly blasting right through them.  The centaurs, excepting the actual charge, had the same issue with the javelins, I hit with dang near everything, scored few damage.  (But WAS scoring some, wasn't like I was rolling poorly) 

Looking back, I should have targetted all ranged firepower on the Skelly troll.  At 1-3, I'd have damaged him far quicker, and might have helped my dudes more.  However, the reason I didn't, is that behind the Skelly troll was an Abomination, which I knew would take dang near forever to kill.  Behind the zombie trolls were zombies, which I figured I could go through like hot butter. 

Ok...so the lines hit, and it was 1)  centaur on Ztroll, 2)  spear on Ztroll, 3)  spear on Ghoul, 4)  spear on STroll, and 5)  sword on Ghoul.  the 6)  Brownines on ghoul pack took place a turn later.

1)  On the impact, I played Aspect of the Wolverine, gaining two attack dice.  I figured no time like the present to trash that ZTroll, which after ranged fire and javelins, already had 4 wounds.  (It has also been previously healed once)  He got knocked down to 2 red health left, and did nothing to the centaurs in return...woohoo!!  He died on the next battle phase, doing 1 damage to the centaur in his death throes.  A unit of zombies was not quite backing him up, but was close.  The turn after the ZTroll died, I decided I had to smash the zombies in front, or they would flank my centaurs, and hold them there, so I went for a one shot kill....I fired the bowmasters at them (the zombies), and the Centaurs did indeed one shot them.  However, the zmbies scored a freaking point of damage on the centaurs.  Game ended at that point, but my centaurs were either going to have to turn left and fight the ghouls on the brownies, (which I prob would have done, even though it sucked), or turn right and start trying to kill everything.  (this was problematic, since the Undead player had a freaking hoarde of units still BEHIND his line.

2)  Because of turn 1 range, my bowmasters had fired on this ZTroll to start, and actually lucked into 2 damage turn 1.  It was healed turn2, (costing 2 command actions), and I thought I was on my way to victory.  I can't remember ever damaging this guy, ever again....On the phase the Centaurs one shotted the zombies, my spearman routed against the Trolls.  They than took 3 more damage, routed again, and were destroyed...whippee!!

3)  As my Spearman charged into his ghouls, they did 1 point of damage to the ghouls, but suffered 2 in return.  The ghouls immediately routed, and I actually did like 3 more damage.  However, because of what happened in battle #4, I was forced to take direct control of my spears and shift them ti the right, just out of enagagemt with the skelly trolls.  The skelly trolls then impacted them, and forced an immediate rout.  My guys ran, finished with 1 boz left in red.  They got some support fire from the reg archer against the STroll, and I think at game end the STroll was put into the Red....that'll teach him.

4)  My Spearman on his STroll got pretty much steamrolled.  He actually took 2 damage from the skelly archers, and then took 2 more from the STroll on impact, My guy routed, was forced into the red, routed again, and that was all she wrote for that Spearman.  This is why the spearman from #3 had to shift over, to help slow down this troll from crashing through.  (Yeah, that worked great)

5)  My sword on ghoul went great!!  On impact, I failed to do any damage, while taking a couple.  On the next phase I struck the ghould for 2 points, and suffered a couple in return (I made my rout checkl!!  Get off me)).  However, the ghoul made his rout check, oh boy.  The same phase my centaur was killing his zombie, my swordsman routed from going into the red, and was killed from behind.  His ghoul compeltely drilled me.

6)  My overperforming brownies came out to meet his ghouls on the flank.  I thought this might go better, since I figured if they hold a turn, I could probably use them both to pinch the ghouls, and help my centaurs.  So..what happened....well, they slammed into each other, and the brownies took like 5 damage.  (not kidding)  His ghouls, though, took one.  My brownies failed their rout, and these ghouls, not to be outdone by the #5 ghouls, also succeeded their rout.  My brownies were subsequently destroyed.  The next phase, they met the 2nd brownie troop in action, and actually, these brownies did fine, doing like 2 damage, while only suffering 1.  However, they were dead meat soon enough without support, which is why I figured I'd have to turn the centaurs this way and smash the ghouls.  However, game ended at this point.

So, all 3 spears and swords routed after 1.5 turns of battle, in addition to 1 regiment of brownies.  (3 rounds of combat)  3 of the core units were completely destroyed, and the remaining spear had 2 red boxes left.  In essence, my entire line evaporated, dang near instantly.

That was awesome!!

4) 

Quelmotz

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2009, 09:04:41 PM »
Looks like your dice was REALLY bad then  :P
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

ajax98

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2009, 09:27:41 PM »
Too linear. You need to consider how to extend your line forcing the Undead into bad positions and gaining a Schwerpunkt.

Quelmotz

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2009, 10:34:32 PM »
And Rush, stop teasing people!  :P

P.S. For those who want it, I may do a Ravenwood STARRED (i.e. stolen from Niko's format - poor Niko, got his format stolen so many times) Review after I get the decks and try them out.  :P

P.S.S. Chad won't like this.  :P But I find the starred review easier for beginners to see which units are better in the overall sense. However, it can be a bit misleading sometimes since a unit can be a very good specialist, but it's quite crappy in most normal circumstances, so it was given a ** for overall, but the readers who don't read the explanation below might be misleaded into thinking they're just a crap unit when they could use it very well for a particular circumstance.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 01:50:25 AM by Quelmotz »
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

GoIndy

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Re: The Chad Ellis Ravenwood Review
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2009, 09:46:38 AM »
Ajax:
My line couldn't 'extend' any further.  We have a 10 unit wide deployment zone when we go 2v2, and extra space to go out on flanks, and I was using all of it.  However, presuming I DID extend it further, the Undead still had like 4 units they could extend with, that they were using at backups.  (including the aforementioned abom) 

I mean, my line cost 1356, and met his line which cost 1177.  I had two ranged units in direct support, costing 569, versus his bowmen costing 150.  This is the kind of thing you would absolutely strive for normally, to have a huge advantage in application of force....but the Ravenfags got absolutely crushed.

My 'solution' for them would be to make brownies core.  Or make Treants core.  But what I'd rather have is the defense of the core spear and swords to be 3/2 defense.