Author Topic: High Elves Units and Tactics  (Read 24194 times)

elgin_j

  • Playtester
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 667
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 05:36:47 AM »
I don't think I'd do it because I still think that the chariots are over priced for what they do (I can get a burst of speed out of an infantry unit for 1 CA and a heck of a lot more durability), but that being said, don't underestimate the power of an all cav charge.  I've done it with Hawkshold in Kingdoms and have had some success.  Granted, Hawkshold has Scouts along with Knights to go with those Light Cav, but the principle is the same:  somewhere on the line you'll bust through his units and then "its flankerin' time!"

I've done the same with a 2x Knight, 2 x Light Cav, 1 x Scout build and some Peasants cowering somewhere.  Not only was it spectacularly successful but it was a hell of a lot of fun.
toodle pip

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4670
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 11:46:41 AM »
Kingdoms, once you get the Keep:  3 Scouts, 3 Light Cavalry, 2 Knights.  A lot of fun!

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 03:36:08 PM »
Just a question about maneuver mastery.  How does this work if you reform a unit?  Can you face it any which way and then move it's full movement if it's direct controlled?  Is that one of the ways MM works?
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

Niko White

  • Celestial Guard
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2406
  • A tíro nin, Fanuilos!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 03:59:11 PM »
Just a question about maneuver mastery.  How does this work if you reform a unit?  Can you face it any which way and then move it's full movement if it's direct controlled?  Is that one of the ways MM works?

Yes, reforms are maneuvers so you can reform any number of times during your move for free.  HE suffer lately from the power of chumps but MM remains an absurd ability.

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2013, 11:37:54 AM »
Well, it wasn't likely that I was gonna play the High Elves at the Championship, but at the last minute I put down the Orcs and decided to play them.  I'm very glad I did.  I did very well overall, but unfortunately didn't play my best on Sunday.  Jaime got his revenge in the semis after I beat him in my first game.  It's nice that he finally won the thing and avoided the "bridesmaid dress". ;D 

Anyhoo, some of the things that I learned this weekend are:

1. Playing the High Elves you are going to have a headache making your armies because you KNOW that you will have less units in your force as compared to your opponent.

2. The new prices for the units at the championship I believe are spot on. (Thanks Kevin)

3. I think the Battlemages are a great unit.  The ability to draw cards can not be underestimated in a faction of quality units, it makes them that much better.  This is good because at some point in the game you WILL BE PINCHED and having defensive cards in your hand ready might allow them to hold 1-2 turns longer than they should.  This is what you NEED them to do.

4. Chariots are awesome against cavalry.  In many a game my opponent did not want to engage my chariots with their cavalry.  I remember two instances specifically during the weekend where one of my chariot units blew up a unit of antonians and a unit of Wolfriders.  In my game against Dave I maneuver mastered them and then hit a T-Rex on the flank and did 7 damage.  It was glorious.  I think I will try to incorporate them in more of my armies.  They seemed to really help.  More often I won when I had at least one in my army.  They hit really hard for only 252 points.

5. I need to roll much better with my ranged fire.  I think I would of had a better chance in two of my losses if I could hit the broad side of a barn. 

6. Maneuver mastery is just sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. 

7. The +1 dice charge, imho, does not over power the battle squads.

8. I will be playing these guys for a while now.  They are my new 2nd favorite faction.  (Ravenwood is 1st)

Bye, bye for now.
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2013, 03:16:28 PM »
Chariots make all other Light Cavalry units not called Numidians poop themselves.
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

Kevin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5157
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2013, 04:17:16 PM »
Quote
Elder Blade Battle Squad
Tank: ****
Light Infantry: *
Overall: ***/*

Sadly, these guys pay a hefty amount of points for an increased stat that I'm pretty convinced you'll never care about.  They cost 33 more points than a Battle Squad and they'll barely ever perform noticeably better.  They technically get three stars because they're still an amazingly good tank unit once they're on the table...but given you have a cheaper, in faction unit that is exactly the same defensively for fewer points, I'm not sure why you'd ever take them.  Frankly, in most situations, I think I'd rather have the command card.

Putting aside charge bonus issues, I must differ from this assessment.  I'd give them something more like:

Tank:  ***
Light Infantry:  ****
Overall:  ****


Putting aside charge bonus issues, they fight equally-priced units to a standstill in the simulator.  However, EB Battlesquads have a hidden strength:  every extra attack die is an attack die coming in at 6/6.  (While an extra attack die for opponents comes in at 5/5).  Moreover, look at the High Elf Command Card Deck:  4 of the 10 cards are pure extra dice (Attack Storm and Deadly Blow), while two other carsd (Subtle Mastery x2) are equivalent to an extra die and an impact hit assuming at least one swing misses.

In short, EB Battlesquads are boosted more by the High Elf Command Card deck than any other unit except for charging cavalry and the expensive EB Swordsmen and of course the Celestial Guard.  This means that, while in theory they fight at 220, in practice they'll usually overperform.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2013, 07:52:38 PM »
In short, EB Battlesquads are boosted more by the High Elf Command Card deck than any other unit except for charging cavalry and the expensive EB Swordsmen and of course the Celestial Guard.  This means that, while in theory they fight at 220, in practice they'll usually overperform.
And the High Elven command deck is good at adding attack dice
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

iamJMAN00793

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • This is Sparta!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2013, 01:52:17 AM »
So am I missing and errata? I'm hearing about extra dice on the charge and point cost changes.
Every man dies. Not every man really lives. ~ Braveheart

Kevin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5157
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2013, 08:53:59 AM »
Nope, no official changes at this point.

We used a charge bonus or (+2) +0/+0 at the recent Dexcon tournament, which put the Battlesquads on steroids.

There's a near consensus that the charge bonus should go from power to dice, but disagreement as to what that dice bonus should looks like.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2014, 07:30:48 PM »
Can somebody who knows the formula tell me what the mistake was when they made the High Elf faction?  Can't remember who told me but somebody said that they got a surcharge they shouldn't of got, right?

Where's this shade, that you got it made?

Kevin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5157
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2014, 08:53:42 PM »
pm sent.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4670
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2014, 11:56:02 AM »
Can somebody who knows the formula tell me what the mistake was when they made the High Elf faction?  Can't remember who told me but somebody said that they got a surcharge they shouldn't of got, right?

Just to clarify:  there is not a consensus that the surcharge on the High Elves was a mistake.  It was explained to me as intentional.

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2014, 10:23:31 PM »
Can somebody who knows the formula tell me what the mistake was when they made the High Elf faction?  Can't remember who told me but somebody said that they got a surcharge they shouldn't of got, right?

Just to clarify:  there is not a consensus that the surcharge on the High Elves was a mistake.  It was explained to me as intentional.

Understood.

I do think it ended up being a mistake though.  Some of the units seem a bit too pricey.  
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 07:53:44 AM by gornhorror »
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2014, 05:14:32 PM »
Look at these comparisons.  How are the High Elf units so much more expensive?  Look at the HEEB vs. DEHD comparison specifically.  Is the High Elf unit 53 points better?  I'm thinking no way.  What boosts up the cost of the HE units?  Is it the "unsexy target" or MM or both?  Just curious.

High Elf Swordsmen (5) 6/5 3/2  R-0 C-13 M-3.5" Maneuver Mastery/Precision/Sprint  299 points
Dark Elf Highblood Blades (5) 6/5 3/1 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" Pain Touch/Fearsome 255 points

That's a 44 point difference.

High Elf Elder-Blade Swordsmen (5) 6/6 3/2 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" Maneuver Mastery/Precision/Sprint  352 points
Dark Elf HighBlood Duskblades (5) 6/6 3/1 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" Pain Touch/Fearsome 299 points

That's a 53 point difference.

High Elf Elder Blade Battle Squads (3) 6/6 3/2 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" Maneuver Mastery/Precision/Sprint 220 points
Dark Elf Standard Bearers (3) 6/6 3/1 R-0 C-14 M-3.5" Pain Touch/Fearsome 202 points

That's an 18 point difference.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 05:25:55 PM by gornhorror »
Where's this shade, that you got it made?