Author Topic: Dwarf Units and Tactics  (Read 17654 times)

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 09:58:37 AM »
Yeah, the antonian horsemen kicked my ass in that game. They took out 3 of my wolf riders.  Sheeesh!!!!!!!!  I had one attack that I need 3's to hit with 8 attack die.(command card plus lash)  I totally whiffed, and all I got was the one impact hit, it was pitiful.  The antonians on the charge are a 4 toughness to hit and the worg riders are a are a 5 to hit which makes this fight uphill for the orcs.  That is why I used the command card, to give me a 50/50 chance, but it didn't help. Although I would of done well in challenge yatzee with 5's and 6's  ;D
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2009, 10:01:08 AM »

Of course, on a related sidenote, Longbeards completely suck as well.  And of all units that incur the wrath of an ancient red dragon, the evil mercenary leader targetted my freaking healer mages as his side collapsed.

I'm gonna have to buy more markers, I used up a small countries GNP in marker ink registering all the wounds my units took as they collapsed.
Taken from the Elves of Ravenwood Thread.

I'm still trying to keep the coffee from spraying out of my nose from suppressing the laughter here...

Do you realize just how badly you got jobbed by those Ogres?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2011, 11:08:19 AM »
Any more tactics for Dwarves? Maybe some good army builds for 1500 & 2,000 ?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 09:06:53 AM »
I'll cook something up for you in the next day or so Bloodaxe, OK?  Not that I'm the leading Runegard authority or anything like that.
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 11:48:50 AM »
I'll cook something up for you in the next day or so Bloodaxe, OK?  Not that I'm the leading Runegard authority or anything like that.

Thanks! By the way- nice beard & axe.  ;)

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 03:52:44 PM »
Why thank you!  Your axe looks... well I really can't comment much on your axe because it's all covered in
gore.  But I guess that means it gets the job done, right?

OK, I have some dwarfy ideas I'd like to share.  I don't consider myself to be the Runegard guru, but I do play Dwarves quite a bit and here's some of the things I've picked up for better or for worse.

1 - Axemen, Battle Axemen, or Hammermen on the line?  All 3 of these guys are similar and are pretty close in
points cost.  Of the 3, you can never really go wrong with Axemen.  They represent a wonderful tanking unit
that can do some damage against many opponents when augmented with a rune.  I almost always have at least 2
of these guys in any non-stand and shoot 2000 point build regardless of opponent.  The Battle Axemen are
obviously good against opponents with lower defensive skill, so they are good to bring against Hawkshold,
Orcs, Undead, Lizard Men, Monsters & Mercs, and even Ravenwood at times.  I very rarely field them against
High Elves, Dark Elves, or Historicals as their high offensive power is often times wasted.  They also die
faster than Axemen, but the 13 courage means they may stick around to inflict some damage on their way out.  If your core requirements have been met, Hammermen are a great unit to include against mid to lower level opponents.  Don't expect them to stand up to the heavy hitter units.  They have lots of dice, but most of
those dice will be missing.  Put them up against the schmucks and they'll have a ball.  Hammermen with a Rune
on them will plow their way through a bunch of Hawk Swordsmen pretty nicely. 

2 - Balista use.  The Balista is something I don't use often because 2 bowmen will almost always do the job better.  Except against Large or Colossal units, where they shine.  I believe the Balista was specifically created to shoot larger creatures.  Especially with the advent of the 3.0 rules where they can continue firing at a large unit even if it's engaged!  So as a rule of thumb I seriously consider bringing a Balista against factions that are likely to field large units.  That would be The Undead, Lizard Men, and Monsters & Mercs.  The Umenzi are a crap shoot because they may not always bring the War Elephant.

3 - Where the Rune goes.  Dwarven Players are tempted to mark Rune of Uruz on as many of their units as possible.  You should look at each of your units and consider what their job is before you apply a Rune.  Let's take the trusty Axemen as an example.  Say your Axemen are likely to engage something big and nasty like a Treant.  They are not going to win that fight for sure, so their job is to hold up until they can get help.  Don't waste the Rune on these guys.  Now if an Axemen unit is facing off against something they have a good shot at killing like Ghouls or Goblins, go ahead and give them that extra attack die so they can cut through them even faster and give another one of your guys help.  Make sure you will get value for your Rune.  Don't put it on something that has lousy offensive stats because an extra attack die is not going to help.  I almost never put a Rune on Militia, Miners, or Shortbeards unless they are sure to pinch something.  On the other hand, guys like Battle Axemen and especially Longbeards should almost get a Rune by default.  Marking off the Rune on Longbeards is one of the first things I'll do because an extra die on a 6/6 attack profile is never a bad thing.

4 - Terrain.  Aside from hills and features that are impassable by both armies, terrain can be the Dwarven general's worst nightmare.  Few things are more irritating in this game than having to burn command actions to sprint your guys just so you can move 1.75 through rough terrain.  There are 2 things you can do to counter terrain.  A) Stand and shoot.  The Dwarves can do this reasonably well and frankly, nobody should blame you.  B) Do your best to engage on an empty part of the map if there is one.  And remember that Hills don't really give you much of an advantage, they just make the other guy as slow as you are.  It is nice being able to beat your opponent to the top of a hill using sprint, though :)   

5 - Crossbowmen.  There's always lots of talk about Crossbowmen and how folks deploy them for the odd point of damage they will inflict on their way into an engagement.  Personally, I think of Crossbowmen as a defensive unit.  So I rarely employ them unless I'm doing a stand and shoot, where they are excellent to have on your front line.  They will get a good 3 or so turns of firing and when they become engaged they turn into Axemen.  The downside to this is that they are more vulnerable to ranged fire than Axemen and they WILL attract attention from enemy ranged units.

6 - Friends from Antonia.  Antonian Horsemen are one of the most critical components of any Dwarven army that is not going to stand and shoot.  They are the only speed unit you've got and they are almost essential for protecting your flanks.  It's also nice that they are the best light cavalry unit in the game.  Just remember that they are intended for flanking and pinching, not ramming themselves headlong into an enemy unit unless that unit is something that is likely to break on the charge turn like Goblins or speed bumps.  Their near-immunity to ranged fire is a wonderful thing.  They are extremely fragile, so be careful with them.
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 10:53:25 PM »
Some great stuff for me to think about & try. Thank you very much!

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2011, 09:49:16 AM »
Well, I believe the Dwarves have their problems, but I think their strengths outweigh them.  First look at their stat bars.  They are all very beefy.  Even the lesser units who don't call themselves ranged or cavalry have like 11 or 12 boxes.  This means that they can take more abuse on the way in AND in a fight.  Combine that with the command deck with all of those cards that give courage boosts and routing is less of a problem than with most other factions. 

Rune of Uruz is a great ability.  One extra attack die that stays unless you rout?  Pretty strong.  I always find myself saying, "Damn, that's a lot of dice you have there."  Dwarves will just straight out win most battles of attrition once the melee begins.  That's probably why I always thought range units were a little weak.  Whenever I play against your dwarves, one or two damage on the way in isn't going to help much.  It's probably fair that other factions get the maneuver advantage against them because in a straight up fight you're probably going to lose. 

Antonians........Obviously, they added these guys into the faction to take up some of the slack for the poor maneuverability of the other units.  I think they fill in quite well.  I agree with you, Marcus.  They are definitely one of the best light cavalry in the game.  They might even be THE BEST.  I'm still torn between the Stags of Ravenwood and them.  It's close.   Anyways, the Antonians are the perfect fit for the Dwarves.


Where's this shade, that you got it made?

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2011, 12:31:44 PM »
Anybody have some secret awesome army lists they want to share? (1500 or 2,000 points)

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking Crossbowmen were a bargain, instead of Axemen, because of the added missiles. I wasnt thinking they are more vulnerable to return fire.

Are Bowmen any good? They seem a bit vulnerable. (unless guarded)
So the cheaper filler units are Militia, Shortbeards & MIners?

BubblePig

  • Guest
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2011, 12:40:13 PM »
I think Crossbowmen are a red herring most of the time unless you have a narrow engagement area or unless you plan to stand and shoot. Axemen are cheaper, are 2/3 instead of 1/3 on defense, plus they are core.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 12:44:16 PM by BubblePig »

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2011, 08:26:08 PM »
Anybody have some secret awesome army lists they want to share? (1500 or 2,000 points)

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking Crossbowmen were a bargain, instead of Axemen, because of the added missiles. I wasnt thinking they are more vulnerable to return fire.

My generic 2000 point all-purpose build
2 Axemen
2 Militia
1 Battle Axemen
1 Spearmen
1 Longbeards
1 Antonians
1985 points

Against Elves, I swap out the Battle Axemen for Hammermen to give me 1995 points
In a situation like ticking clock where I want to do as much damage as possible I'll upgrade one of the Axemen to Battle Axemen for 1993 points

All core except for the Antonians:
2 Axemen
2 Battle Axemen
2 Militia
1 Spearmen
1 Bowmen
1 Antonians
1997 points

Anti-large creature stand and shoot:
2 Crossbowmen
2 Spearmen
2 Bowmen
2 Balistas
An awkward 1952 points, but Lizardmen and Monsters & Mercs hate to see this facing them on the other side of the field

Sorry, I don't have any 1500 point builds that I consider to be especially good.  I have a hard time putting a decent Dwarven army together at that cost myself.  See my 200 point sweet spot discussion:
http://yourmovegames.com/forum/index.php/topic,2502.0.html

Are Bowmen any good? They seem a bit vulnerable. (unless guarded)
So the cheaper filler units are Militia, Shortbeards & MIners?
As Bowmen go, the Dwarven version is OK.  They are reasonably priced and they do what any other faction's generic Bowmen can do.

You're right about the filler units, but you should choose Militia above the other 2.  Their purpose is to hang in there and tank it out while until a stronger unit can finish it's opponent and help out.  I actually like the Miners from a flavor standpoint.  I rarely use them, but they can be funny when facing opponents with high defensive toughness.  They don't last long, though.  I abhor Shortbeards and will only employ them if I am squeezed for points or if I have an extra 107 points laying around for a backup unit.  I consider them to be one of the worst speed bump units in the game. 

I'm with BubblePig on the Crossbowmen.  I don't use them often, but they can be pretty nifty when the situation demands it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 08:27:53 PM by RushAss »
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3857
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2011, 08:34:07 PM »
Antonians........Obviously, they added these guys into the faction to take up some of the slack for the poor maneuverability of the other units.  I think they fill in quite well.  I agree with you, Marcus.  They are definitely one of the best light cavalry in the game.  They might even be THE BEST.  I'm still torn between the Stags of Ravenwood and them.  It's close.   Anyways, the Antonians are the perfect fit for the Dwarves.
Yeah, Brook and I share a love-fest for both the Antonians and the Stags.  Both units are great and frankly I'm shocked that more players don't field the Stags.  I'm smelling some more Ravenwood commentary...
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2011, 09:00:28 PM »
Thanks alot for all your help. Maybe all the goodies can be gathered together in one easy to read thread. I appreciate the tips- really.

Are Longbeards worth their points?

In your all-purpose list- there are no missile troops. So missiles arent always necessary for a good army list?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 09:03:00 PM by Bloodaxe »

gull2112

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4197
  • From the RUSH faction
    • Meditations on Brain Injury
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2011, 09:35:15 PM »
They're not always necessary, but they're almost always pretty handy. They rarely take out a unit compleltely, but they are just the thing for softening up the line. You may be familiar enough with the game to realize what a big deal four green boxes are when it comes to staying power in combat, well you can imagine if one or two of those boxes are checked before the units engage.

If you have no missile troops then you definitely want an army that is designed to close, and close fast. You want to make contact before the opponent can spend command actions to check units, draw command cards, or make adjustments to his line. You especially want to hit him before his missile troops can soften your guys up too much!

But as an avowed Orcophile, I have built many factions with out missile troops, I just like to include trolls, goblin fanatics, and wolf riders to sprint across the board along with heavily lashed Orcs. 8)
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

Bloodaxe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Repost: Dwarf Units and Tactics
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2011, 10:27:58 PM »
Fast is not an option for Dwarves.  ;D  Antonians excluded of course!  I think Id feel better with one or two missile units. Im gonn athrow a few lists together based on all your tips & lists.