Author Topic: Hill Variant  (Read 5593 times)

NegativeZer0

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Hill Variant
« on: February 24, 2009, 08:33:41 AM »
perfect information Variant (you play the game as if every card is in your hand)

I have been play testing a way of making it so this version doesn't just devolve into I play all my artillery and all my tanks every turn and don't have to play strategically.

Basically every unit has a cost [that would only be used in the variant] and you have command points.  You get X points every turn and they build up if you don't use them all [up to a maximum].

Here's where I started at:
You get 3 points every turn and have a max stored points of 9 [use 10 sided die to keep track].
You may not play a card if it will prevent you from playing your second card for the turn.
Playing any card in your base is free
Air Strike 0
Infantry 1
Everything else 2
Heavy Weapons 3
tank/artillery 4
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 09:46:29 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

andrewgr

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 09:24:46 AM »
...so this version doesn't just devolve into I play all my artillery and all my tanks every turn and don't have to play strategically.

Does this method win against the computer AI?

NegativeZer0

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2009, 09:35:01 AM »
I think your missing the fact this is rules for a variant where "you play the game as if every card is in your hand".  So there is no way to test that against the computer. 

And yes even with the normal rules you can sometimes make an art/tank rush against the computer and win even on hard.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 09:50:03 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

andrewgr

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 11:48:08 AM »
I think your missing the fact this is rules for a variant where "you play the game as if every card is in your hand".  So there is no way to test that against the computer. 

And yes even with the normal rules you can sometimes make an art/tank rush against the computer and win even on hard.

I'm not missing anything.  In your initial post, you strongly implied that the strategy for winning the game (as published) is trivial, consisting of playing all your artillery and tanks ever turn, so that you "don't have to play strategically".  I believe that is false.  I was trying to ascertain how you came to that conclusion: whether you had just been playing against a friend, or whether you had been playing against the computer.  The "strategy" of playing all your artillery and tanks every turn will win less than 50% of the time against the computer.  The fact that it wins when you get a good hand to start with isn't particularly relevent, since many strategies will win when you get a good opening hand.

NegativeZer0

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 01:02:14 PM »
No I implied that IF YOU HAVE ALL THE CARDS available it can sometimes devolve into that.

I have been play testing a way of making it so this version doesn't just devolve into I play all my artillery and all my tanks every turn and don't have to play strategically.

The comment has NOTHING to do with the original game which I very much enjoy. 
I played the game against my friend one time and we wanted to see what it would be like if you dint have to draw the cards and this is where we ended up.  It's meant to be a fun alternative not a replacement.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 01:22:33 PM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

andrewgr

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 02:05:03 PM »
Ah, I see.

That makes sense.

I can't think of an easy way to modify the computer program to use this variant.  It could be done, but it would be non-trivial.  Also, the combinations for the computer AI's moves would be very large, so it might take a long time to make each move.

NegativeZer0

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 04:08:58 PM »
I posted this because chad mentioned a re-them/re-skinning and expanding the original game for a reprint.  So I thought I'd post the variant I cam up with to maybe spark some ideas and see some rules for variant ways to play the game. 

The original already has a HUGE re-playability factor.  Add in some alternative ways to play and you could play this game a 1,000,000 times and still not be sick of it.
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

Chad_YMG

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 01:46:08 PM »
I have been play testing a way of making it so this version doesn't just devolve into I play all my artillery and all my tanks every turn and don't have to play strategically.

I actually suspect that you'd still have to play strategically, although I could be wrong.

Quote
You get 3 points every turn and have a max stored points of 9 [use 10 sided die to keep track].
You may not play a card if it will prevent you from playing your second card for the turn.
Playing any card in your base is free
Air Strike 0
Infantry 1
Everything else 2
Heavy Weapons 3
tank/artillery 4

The "playing any card in your base is free" is interesting.  Right now it's often correct to blow up the enemy base with early plays to stop him from taking the initiative.  In this variant that would often be a huge mistake, since you'd be allowing your opponent to play Artillery at a 3-point discount.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

NegativeZer0

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Re: Hill Variant
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 11:19:54 PM »
I actually suspect that you'd still have to play strategically, although I could be wrong.

Even without the points rules added yes there is some strategy still but eventually the game winds down to a run of back to back tank & artillery by both players and I really wanted to eliminate this.

Also the points cost further balances the down side of going first.  The same rules of playing 1 card are still used when going first so you will always be 1 card behind but will also be further ahead in points.

The "playing any card in your base is free" is interesting.  Right now it's often correct to blow up the enemy base with early plays to stop him from taking the initiative.  In this variant that would often be a huge mistake, since you'd be allowing your opponent to play Artillery at a 3-point discount.

Yes it does add a twist to the play style which is always fun.  The main reason for the rule was it gave enough points to the player on the defensive to push back a player that used his stored up points for double tank or art tank on the same turn and not just be overwhelmed.  At the same time a strategic advance can also offset this defensive advantage.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 08:27:14 AM by NegativeZer0 »
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!