Author Topic: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)  (Read 31438 times)

Niko White

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Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« on: February 23, 2009, 04:46:49 PM »
Orc Tactics and Units Thread

Time for some Orcs.  I'll start with my usual unit overview deal.  Intro cribbed from my High Elves thread, thankfully saved by the archival expertise of Ajax:

I'll list each unit and give a number of stars to each general role I think one might try to use it in, from 1-5.  If I don't list a given role it means I think it can't do that, but I could always be wrong or forgetful, so please respond and post your own if you like!

We can also use this thread for Orc tactics.  It has been a while since I played the Orcs very seriously, but I've never let such things stop me before.

If you have a post you've made in another thread that you think fits in this one, feel free to post it; I think it would make some sense to have everything in one place.

General guideline to what the stars mean:

*:  It looks like this unit might be able to do this, but I've found that this is a trap.
**:  In select cases, the unit might not completely embarrass you trying to play this role.
***:  The unit plays the role competently.  Generally it won't work miracles, but it justifies its points in most games.
****:  The unit is excellent at that role.  I'll try to "upgrade" other units in that role to this one if I can.
*****:  Centaurs.

Stars are points-adjusted, so you'll often see a unit that's better on the table getting fewer stars at a role, because it isn't enough better to make the points worth it in my opinion.

Roles:

Tank: This is a unit you use to soak up hits and last long enough for relief to arrive, without planning on it doing significant damage.
Light Infantry:  This is a unit that you plan to have last just long enough to get help, and maybe do a bit of damage while it's at it.  It won't stand up to a real damage unit, but it will prevent opposing tanks from embarrassing you by pinching in.  I think of this as the "offensive" version of the tank unit.
Heavy Infantry:  The game's generalist units.  They have good attack and defense stats, but neither is enough of a standout that they aren't capable of both dealing and taking some damage.  These are the non-specialist guys who you plan to use to cover contingencies and things like that.
Light Damage:  This is a unit you use to charge in, either against weak units or into a pinch.  This plan involves breaking them on the first turn because the unit will be in trouble if you don't.
Heavy Damage:  This is a unit you use to charge in and beat people up on the charge turn, but unlike Light Damage, you're trusting them to last a few turns if things go wrong.
Fire Support:  This is a unit you use to add fire where it is needed.  You don't count on them to get much done on their own, but combined with a reasonable infantry unit or other fire support, they can create holes in the opposing line and get things going.
Artillery:  The big guns.  These units add fire support, but the fire is meaningful enough that you are hoping they'll do big damage over the course of the game, rather than serving a dedicated support role.
Other:  Sometimes I'll put in another category, like "Centaurs" or "Bowriders" and explain it in the comments.

I'll also give every unit an overall score indicating how often I tend to play it.

Orc Unit Review

Crazed Goblins
Tank: *
Light Infantry: **
Backup Unit: ***
Overall: **

Every time people use these as a front line unit against me, I am thankful they are giving away free points.  Orcs aren't set up to have a 5" move line; you could do a Crazed Goblins + Trolls line with Goblin Bowmen filling in the cores if you wanted, but that's firmly in the realm of the silly; these guys may never rout, but any halfway decent unit will kill them in a few turns.  In order to use Crazed Goblins to good effect, you need to use the Indirect Path rule (one of the most handy in the game.)  If a unit is on close behind a slower moving unit, you can choose if it tries to go around or not each turn.  This lets you do two useful things with Crazed Goblins.  First, you can put them on the flanks and have them start swinging out before the lines meet, ready to pinch in.  This is good if it works, but generally low percentage because if the other player has any plans for those flanks, the goblins are likely a speed bump at best; the kind of units people put on flanks tend to be the high damage/low toughness types that are ideal for killing Crazed Goblins.  My personal favorite plan is to sit 3 or so of these guys behind your 7 unit line and let them act as backup units, either using the actual backup unit rule or just having them move into gaps.  A big issue with Orc line units is that they are built to win long fights but their courage is questionable enough that they'll sometimes suffer embarrasing routs.  The Crazed Goblins will only step in for 2-3 attacks against even an average unit, but those turns can make a big difference.  In this role, they're the emergency field dressing of the injured Orc line.

Goblin Raiders
Light Infantry: **
Overall: *

I hate these guys lots.  They take tons of damage from everything and they rout all the time.  If you really need a light dude to fill out your line, so be it, but you're better off with Crazed Goblins for any light infantry use that isn't front line (like a pinch threat) because 5" speed is good and at least the Crazed Goblins will give all 8 health for the cause and cost way less.

Goblin Bowmen
Fire Support: ***
Overall: **

These guys are actually one of the better fire support units in the game.  They are so bad in every respect that isn't their attack profile that they are dirt cheap for said attack profile.  The reason they only get two stars overall is that I find affording a respectable Orc line to be very difficult, which means I can rarely budget for much fire support, so I don't field them all that often.  If you want a support unit, these guys are a great go to option.

Goblin Spearmen
Light Infantry: **
Light Spearmen: ***
Overall: **

If you have to bring Goblin basic infantry, try your best to make it these dudes.  They still rout all the time and get slaughtered by anything, but at least they get a real person attack profile and spears, so if the opponent has some cavalry, they have to either bother to shoot them or be a bit afraid of charging into them.  They'll die in the exchange, but might cripple or rout a way better unit, which is far, far ahead of the likely outcome of the Raiders.

Goblin Wolf Riders
Light Damage: ****
Anything Else: *
Overall: ****

I almost gave these guys five stars, it is very close.  I consider them the archetypal light damage unit, absolutely devastating at that role for very little price.  They hit amazingly hard for less than 200 points and if you lash them they get up to a staggering 8.5" move, flying across the battlefield to smash into more or less anything.  If that smash is a flank or pinch, there are few units in the game that will walk away without at least a rout check.  They're incredibly fragile to make up for it (though effectively 3/2 vs shooting due to the cavalry and fast moving modifiers, so at least they're unlikely to be scattered by archery) but are basically a cruise missile.  They'll run into something, kill it, and likely die themselves, but who cares?  A stellar unit.

Orc Swordsmen
Tank: ***
Heavy Infantry: **
Overall: ***

A workhorse of the Orc line.  They'll rarely win fights at any speed, since they average just over 1 damage per turn against even 2/2 guys, but they don't die easily.  They have two black marks against them: they are pretty expensive for a dedicated tank, and their courage is highly questionable.  This latter is the real issue: while Orc Swordsmen will eventually win against most line units if no one routs, they often won't actually win because they'll run away first.  Most guys with this level of toughness have more courage tricks than two copies of I Kill You Meself, good though that card is.  This means you can't really just trust your line of beefy Orcs to crash in and win it; even with your quality advantage, these guys are likely on a clock.  Nonetheless, they have a strong A plan of not dying until they can get bailed out, and if the opponent's line has a weak spot, an Orc Swordsman can definitely punch through, especially with the help of command cards.  Once one does punch through, you're almost assured of a good pinch with the 5" final rush range from the Lash.

Orc Spearmen
Tank: ***
Heavy Infantry: **
Overall: **

They're a straight upgrade on Orc Swordsmen, unfortunately they upgrade something you don't care about much in ordinary circumstances.  As noted above, even though Orc line units are generally going to be as good or better than the enemy, their tendency to rout means you can't really count on them to win fights.  The Orc Spearmen get no courage boost or survivability bonus, only an attack bonus, and a minor enough one that they still might well not win the fight fast enough.  If you expect large or cavalry units these guys can be a good deal, but unlike the spears in Hawks or Ravenwood, I wouldn't suggest them as a matter of course.

Orc Crossbowmen
Fire Support: **
Tank: *
Heavy Infantry: **
Overall: **

I find these guys really hard to use.  Their ranged attack is really weak if they advance, and being a 1/3 with 12 courage means they are surprisingly fragile for Orcs.  You can use them to help work out a stand and shoot line, but Orcs really aren't suited for that kind of thing, because your front line is too expensive to let you get enough artillery.  The fact that they get offensive rather than defensive bonuses also doesn't help at all; Dwarf Crossbows are IMO significantly better because a shooting uint that turns into a tank is a big step up over a shooting unit that turns into a beater.  That said, they're the only access the Orcs have to a 5/6, so if that's what you think you need, then these guys are there for you.  The courage and skill edge means I'd rather have Axemen in most cases, though.

Orc Axemen
Heavy Infantry: ****
Overall: ****

A very nice attacking heavy infantry unit, and in my opinion one of the reasons to play Orcs.  The point of courage makes a big difference, and (5) 6/6 is a very powerful attack line; this is one of the cheapest units in the game to pack that kind of punch.  It also works very well with the Orc command cards and Lash; dice bonuses love a profile that starts this good.  The lowered defense skill over other Orc units is a bummer, but IMO the courage makes up for it and you need someone who can break through in good time, and these guys will do it for you.  They're not as good a unit in abstract as Marauders, obviously, but the extra point of power and significant points discount means they compare pretty well, especially against tough opposition.  They're competent tanks or flank attackers as well, but in both cases you can clearly do better with other Orc units, so I'd tend to suggest trying to match them up against a weaker defender mid-line to keep the opponent guessing.

Goblin Bomb Chucker
Artillery: **
Special Hilarity Factor: *****
Overall: **

This guy is great fun, but on any serious calculation he's pretty seriously lacking.  The fact that you can't play command cards on him is totally understandable, but basically ruins his utility as a unit.  Artillery needs to get a lot from its dice, and if your opponent can play purple cards unopposed, then that's clearly not going to happen.  The one place where this is quite nice is if the opponent is bringing Large or especially Colossal units; sure, they almost always have high toughness so you aren't expecting great returns, but you essentially can't miss most of them, they're often hard to play command cards on, and every point you get before you engage them is gold.  This goes double for the Hydra, which is a great target for this guy, who hits it on 4s and 3s even at extreme range, and possibly with a boatload of dice.

Orc Marauders
Heavy Infantry: ****
Killing Elves: *****
Overall: ****

The other headlining source of Orcish breakthroughs, the Marauders get huge numbers of high quality dice without giving up defense, and gain a point of courage and better health distribution in the process.  The only down side is that they are expensive in a faction where all your good dudes are already difficult to afford, so they can be very hard to support, especially in smaller games.  Still, you need to have some way to create opportunities, and they can be very good at it, the real question is if you want them over Axemen.  This depends a lot on the situation and points, of course, but don't assume that just because you can afford them Marauders are worth the extra 67 points.  Orcs have an easier time adding dice than improving their dice with their unique command cards, and against Dwarves, other Orcs, or similar 3 toughness units, the 5 strength is a major down side.  Even ignoring all that, +2 dice vs. +1 power is probably a wash in terms of damage, so you risk paying, in the end, 67 points for +1 defense skill that might not matter for what you really want to do with them.  That said, if you're facing Ravenwood, Umenzi, or even the High Elves, the Marauders will be fantastic.  In general, you can't go that far wrong with either, but if enemy shooting is a possibility, the 2 defense skill on the Marauders is huge.  Also, while the Axemen are probably mathematical favorites in a lot of situations, picking up 7+ dice is just so fun.

Trolls
Heavy Infantry: ***
Heavy Damage: **

These guys are fine, but they're pretty awkward to use, because once they get out of the green, they're deeply unreliable (since they might rout to a single point of damage,) and prone to being seriously capped by dice.  If you make sure you have a purple card for them, they'll do good work, but for 406 points I hate having to dread them losing their last green hit so much.  They're also quite comparatively fragile for their cost, since they're large and thus easy to hit with shooting, but don't have the benefit of being too tough for normal bowfire like lots of large units.  That said, 7 strength is clearly huge against guys like Zombies and opposing giant monsters, and the regeneration can be very nice to have.  The other interesting aspect of these guys is that they can sort of pretend to be Knights, their speed allowing them to lurk behind the lines and act as a flanking threat.  They'll almost certainly win that flank unless the opponent has some serious cavalry out there (or another giant monster) but the 400 point price tag can make it very difficult to afford that given how hard it is to fill out your line.  On the other hand, if you can fit it, he can really deeply threaten a flank, and the ability to lash him to 6" makes him a very solid threat.

Discuss Orcs here!  Some tactics tips may follow.

lazyj

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 05:11:59 PM »
Goblin Spearmen are merely a 1 turn delay for Heavy Cavalry if they aren't set to Hold. If there's even a hint of a chance that they will engage Cavalry they need to be on Hold. In our last game a unit of Goblin Spears did exactly 1 damage to my Knights who annihilated them in a single turn - I believe this was straight up without command cards. This is almost certainly because they were charging in against charging Knights.

Though "always on Hold" is a good rule of thumb for most Spearmen, it is especially true for the low-Courage, low-Defense Skill Goblins. They are really not going to last against most Cavalry units so they have to maximize their time for damage.

gull2112

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 05:24:34 PM »
Orcs are my favorite faction, probably because when I was into minis years ago I had a 500+ figure army of 'em! I have actually won less than 50% of the time with them however, which is more a reflection on my skill than anything else. As someone who uses Orcs a lot (I like to call them the big 'O'  ;D ) I was eagerly waiting for their attention from Niko.

I agree with everything he says, and let me add this:

Lash, lash, lash. Not always and indescriminately, but always be thinking about it. The extra die is cool, but the extended charge range is REALLY cool!

The Goblin Bomb Chucker is always such a threat and yet so brittle, that I rarely get to use it. Its always selected by enemy archers and that's that. When my opponent has let it alone he has always rued the day...

Hordes of cheap goblins are great for flanking, and having more units than the enemy, and that means a longer line, but you need to have them supported by Trolls, Marauders, or Axemen.

The orcs play fast. You do not want to get into a situation where you're maneuvering about and/or dilly-dallying around. They need to get there fast and close and kill.

The best use I ever got out of crazed goblins was to break up my opponent's line because he moved to intercept them and to pinch. They died of course, but his line was so fouled that my regular guys cleaned house. That worked... Once. James will never let that happen again.
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Niko White

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 07:13:21 PM »
Goblin Spearmen are merely a 1 turn delay for Heavy Cavalry if they aren't set to Hold. If there's even a hint of a chance that they will engage Cavalry they need to be on Hold. In our last game a unit of Goblin Spears did exactly 1 damage to my Knights who annihilated them in a single turn - I believe this was straight up without command cards. This is almost certainly because they were charging in against charging Knights.

Though "always on Hold" is a good rule of thumb for most Spearmen, it is especially true for the low-Courage, low-Defense Skill Goblins. They are really not going to last against most Cavalry units so they have to maximize their time for damage.

This is actually one of the few situations where I agree with you.  Goblin Spears will only do any good holding.  Spearmen on Close are usually the right play, though, given the rest of your line is closing.  Sure, they get a "penalty" on the charge turn, but I'd gladly take (-1) +0/+1 in most cases.  Getting charged by cavalry is about the only time you want to put a premium on holding with spears.  You're at least a little happier holding them than other people, but don't feel like there's any particular need if it doesn't make sense in context.

lazyj

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 11:53:04 PM »
Whenever possible, I try to deploy spearmen directly across from big nasty things and do a "Hold with Objective" move so that they keep up with the line but are ready to skewer bad guys who charge them. If there are no big nasty things then they are fine to charge with everyone else.

Otherwise, yes, (-1)0/+1 is certainly acceptable.

Niko White

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 12:11:52 AM »
Whenever possible, I try to deploy spearmen directly across from big nasty things and do a "Hold with Objective" move so that they keep up with the line but are ready to skewer bad guys who charge them. If there are no big nasty things then they are fine to charge with everyone else.

Otherwise, yes, (-1)0/+1 is certainly acceptable.

Yep, of course, if you are going to get the bonus, hold is great :)  I just notice a lot of players who are convinced that their spears should always hold because they see the "penalty" to dice on the back of the card, so I am vigilant about pointing out that it is really more like a bonus on turns beyond the first!

Jaels

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 12:13:31 PM »
Crazed Goblins
Tank: *
Light Infantry: **
Backup Unit: ***
Overall: **

Every time people use these as a front line unit against me, I am thankful they are giving away free points.  Orcs aren't set up to have a 5" move line; you could do a Crazed Goblins + Trolls line with Goblin Bowmen filling in the cores if you wanted, but that's firmly in the realm of the silly; these guys may never rout, but any halfway decent unit will kill them in a few turns.  In order to use Crazed Goblins to good effect, you need to use the Indirect Path rule (one of the most handy in the game.)  If a unit is on close behind a slower moving unit, you can choose if it tries to go around or not each turn.  This lets you do two useful things with Crazed Goblins.  First, you can put them on the flanks and have them start swinging out before the lines meet, ready to pinch in.  This is good if it works, but generally low percentage because if the other player has any plans for those flanks, the goblins are likely a speed bump at best; the kind of units people put on flanks tend to be the high damage/low toughness types that are ideal for killing Crazed Goblins.  My personal favorite plan is to sit 3 or so of these guys behind your 7 unit line and let them act as backup units, either using the actual backup unit rule or just having them move into gaps.  A big issue with Orc line units is that they are built to win long fights but their courage is questionable enough that they'll sometimes suffer embarrasing routs.  The Crazed Goblins will only step in for 2-3 attacks against even an average unit, but those turns can make a big difference.  In this role, they're the emergency field dressing of the injured Orc line.

One thing I like doing with the Crazed Goblins is when I expect to play against another charging/maneuvering army (i.e. not a stand and shoot).  In this case, I'll deploy my real army in the two closest rows to the battle area edge, and deploy one or two Goblins as my last units, alone in the first row (preferably on a flank).  I'll then let them charge the opposing line by themselves and die in the process, but messing up advance plans for the opponent quite a lot by delaying a unit or more by a few turns, turning units around to pinch the Goblins, etc.

NegativeZer0

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 01:50:30 PM »
So is it bad if my orc army uses all of the units you rate as p*ss-poor or lower
Goblin Raiders 4
Goblin Bomb-Chucker 2
Trolls 2

(This is really just a fun goblin theme army but I have actually won a game with this army)
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GoIndy

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 03:33:56 PM »
I'm a big believer in the Orcs, and if I have to have a general purpose army without knowing what my opponent will put up, I'll probably always choose them.  (I'd take the Dwarves if I knew the enemy had limited range dudes, but hard to guess that sometimes)  Anyhoo....

Goblin Raiders and Spearmen

Yeah, these guys suck...no question.  The real question is....can I field a line without them?  Also..can I field a line where I can maybe "hide" them by getting them to square off against some crappy unit of the enemy?  I mean, sure, I'd greatly prefer to have a unit of Dwarven Militia instead of these losers, but since I'm not allowed, if I want to have any kind of line...I'l probably have 1 or 2.  Sucks and all, but what can you do.  I just hope I'll be able to stockpile some cards and help these dudes with defense as I go.

Goblin Bowmen

It would be a rare day indeed that I would put in a unit of Goblin Bowmen.  The only time I would really wish I had them, was if my opponent had some collosal super unit.  Maybe in the future the 3 other guys I play with might field them, but generally, only I whip out a T-Rex or Hydra on occassion.  So, I don't bother buying these dudes, and make my line stronger.

Goblin Wolf Riders
The only question with these guys is...do I buy one of them...or two?  I can't imagine a starting force of orcs NOT having them in it.


Orc Swordsmen and Spearmen:
These guys are tough hombres, and my line will have alot of them, generally, as many as I can afford.  Usually, that means at least 2 apiece....and likely...3 apiece.  Now, 3 apiece is 1503 points, so you won't/can't alot to spend after that, laugh.  These guys can do pretty dang well without any card support, but what I generally do is, I use the cards where I can maybe get a quick rout check and smash through and help protect a nearby goblin chump I had to field.


Orc Crossbowmen
Pretty weak, and can't seem to bother with.  However, I bet if my opponent had a collosal unit, I'd wish I had them instead of swordsmen, but since that rarely happens, Swordsmen it is!!



Orc Axemen
It is possible these guys are better than I give them credit, but since them breaking for no reason whatsoever cost me the title at the tournament this weekend, they freaking flat out suck in my book. 

Goblin Bomb Chucker
This guy I actually kind of like, but I have to leave out a key ingredient of my army if I take one.  Generally, it means exchanging him for my signature key ingredient, and downgrading an Orc to Chumplin.  However, it is a fun unit, and in my mind, a fun unit is hard to pass up.

Orc Marauders
These guys look awesome, and would be huge additions to my line.  However, I just can't pay 367 for them, because it would entail adding too many of the Gobweaksistersofthepoor to my line.  Make them cost 300....and I'm in!!

Trolls
Much like the Marauders, I just can't see how I can justify a 400+ hit, and look at my line look like complete garbage.  Make 'em 350...I'll take 'em!!

Healer Mage:
Hey, I know they aren't orc specific, but no army of mine is complete without the mighty healer mage!!  Why, though?  Because most of the line has 2/3 defense, which means orcs are pretty tough dudes to damage.  Because I generally field no ranged guys, my line is often stronger than the enemies to begin with, and hardier guys benefit MOST from the healer mage. 

I probably have to quit using them, though, cause I think these guys are sick of me dragging them into every battle.  (And if I come up with a good way to bring them Lizards, I will!!)

Niko White

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 04:04:37 PM »
So is it bad if my orc army uses all of the units you rate as p*ss-poor or lower
Goblin Raiders 4
Goblin Bomb-Chucker 2
Trolls 2

(This is really just a fun goblin theme army but I have actually won a game with this army)

One challenge in rating Battleground units is in how much you want to play the odds.  I had a game I lost due to the valiant (and statistically aberrant) efforts of an unled Possessed, which stood up for several turns to a High Elf Knight unit, but I can't in good conscience suggest that people use Possessed to tank Knights ;)

That said, I also write from my own perspective.  I hate unreliable units because they bite me all the time, and that army is entirely guys who are one way or another difficult to rely on.  But that of course doesn't mean that they aren't going to be good in a given game.

Battleground is also overall very well balanced, with a few notable exceptions, so my ratings tend to hover in the 2-4 range.  It also means a lot is going to come down to style; I have, for example, a strong bias for making a battle plan in which every unit has a role.  That necessarily biases me towards units that have a strong role to play and away from generalist units that have lots of useful traits but not necessarily ones that you're going to be able to plan to all get use out of in the same battle.  I do think that I'm generally pretty experienced at this game compared to most, so I'm glad to share what I've found, but if a unit performs differently for others, I might well be wrong, and perhaps even more likely, the generals you tend to face might make it so that we are both right about our own particular opponents and forces.

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 04:08:41 PM »

Orc Swordsmen
Tank: ***
Heavy Infantry: **
Overall: ***

A workhorse of the Orc line.  They'll rarely win fights at any speed, since they average just over 1 damage per turn against even 2/2 guys, but they don't die easily.  They have two black marks against them: they are pretty expensive for a dedicated tank, and their courage is highly questionable.  This latter is the real issue: while Orc Swordsmen will eventually win against most line units if no one routs, they often won't actually win because they'll run away first.  Most guys with this level of toughness have more courage tricks than two copies of I Kill You Meself, good though that card is.  This means you can't really just trust your line of beefy Orcs to crash in and win it; even with your quality advantage, these guys are likely on a clock.  Nonetheless, they have a strong A plan of not dying until they can get bailed out, and if the opponent's line has a weak spot, an Orc Swordsman can definitely punch through, especially with the help of command cards.  Once one does punch through, you're almost assured of a good pinch with the 5" final rush range from the Lash.

Why only 2 stars for heavy infantry?  These guys are my meat and potatoes when playing Orcs.  I measure every solid line unit by Orc Swordsmen.  They are basically a faster version of Dwarven Axemen (who I'm a huge fan of) with 2 less red hits. 


Orc Axemen
It is possible these guys are better than I give them credit, but since them breaking for no reason whatsoever cost me the title at the tournament this weekend, they freaking flat out suck in my book. 


You know, that was one of my few bright spots in our game.  I think they where turned off by the Dwarven Militia's beer breath.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 04:10:44 PM by RushAss »
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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2009, 04:11:31 PM »
One thing I like doing with the Crazed Goblins is when I expect to play against another charging/maneuvering army (i.e. not a stand and shoot).  In this case, I'll deploy my real army in the two closest rows to the battle area edge, and deploy one or two Goblins as my last units, alone in the first row (preferably on a flank).  I'll then let them charge the opposing line by themselves and die in the process, but messing up advance plans for the opponent quite a lot by delaying a unit or more by a few turns, turning units around to pinch the Goblins, etc.

Very good point -- Chad loves plans like this.  Another thing worth mentioning is that you can be flexible about this in the Orc army as well, you don't need to commit to it from the start by leaving most of the first rank open, since the Lash allows you to get any line units that started behind Crazed Goblins into place if necessary.  It isn't very efficient, but leading with Crazed Gobbos can also backfire; if the opponent can afford to hold, for example, then you're unlikely to get enough damage out of the goblins to make them worth it.  If they were already planning on stand and shoot, deploying back just gives their artillery more time to shoot.  For this reason, you might want to consider placing your main line on the front row and bringing any guys you need to up with the Lash to replace goblins that run ahead.  That way if it turns out the opponent isn't vulnerable to disruption like that, you can deploy the goblins behind the lines as a backup unit.

Niko White

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2009, 04:19:46 PM »
(Orc Swordsmen)
Why only 2 stars for heavy infantry?  These guys are my meat and potatoes when playing Orcs.  I measure every solid line unit by Orc Swordsmen.  They are basically a faster version of Dwarven Axemen (who I'm a huge fan of) with 2 less red hits. 

I find they just don't hit hard enough and don't have enough courage to count on them to win fights against any reasonable opposition, at least quickly enough to matter.  If going up against, say, Hawk Spearmen, they're very likely to get the Hawks into the yellow before the Hawks get them there, but they're so much more likely to rout that I don't feel comfortable just putting the two units up against each other and counting on my guys to win.  Dwarf Axemen both hit a bit harder (Rune of Uruz) and have better courage because they have so many more courage boosting options.

Basically my hallmark for viewing someone as heavy infantry rather than a tank is "do I worry about needed to bail this guy out, or will he probably win the fight eventually if I just leave well enough alone?"  I find I can't count on Orc Swordsmen to win their fights often enough to be all that comfortable with them as true heavies rather than a tank unit.  The good news is that between Wolf Riders and Lash, Orc are good at taking advantage of opening, and with Marauders and Axemen, they are good at making them.

Quote

Orc Axemen
It is possible these guys are better than I give them credit, but since them breaking for no reason whatsoever cost me the title at the tournament this weekend, they freaking flat out suck in my book. 


You know, that was one of my few bright spots in our game.  I think they where turned off by the Dwarven Militia's beer breath.

Yep, one reason I overall have issues reviewing the Orcs is that courage is a major sticking point for them.  I'm not sure if I've even played with my pretty new Orc cards; maybe I'll do that tonight :)

gull2112

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2009, 06:38:32 PM »
On this morale theme, I have a hilarious note. In our last turn of the Kingdoms campaign in the "sessions" report, I had 3 HE rangers in my Orc army and I passed five courage checks against them by rolling exactly what I needed. The Orcs also held okay and all the rangers succeeded in doing was dying gloriously. I don't think I'll try a rangertrollrangertrollranger line again, but it was a most valiant charge! And yes, I know, HE rangers aren't intended to be front line material, I just like seeing silly elves get their asses handed to them, even if they're on my side. :D
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Jaels

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Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 08:38:34 AM »
One thing I like doing with the Crazed Goblins is when I expect to play against another charging/maneuvering army (i.e. not a stand and shoot).  In this case, I'll deploy my real army in the two closest rows to the battle area edge, and deploy one or two Goblins as my last units, alone in the first row (preferably on a flank).  I'll then let them charge the opposing line by themselves and die in the process, but messing up advance plans for the opponent quite a lot by delaying a unit or more by a few turns, turning units around to pinch the Goblins, etc.

Very good point -- Chad loves plans like this.  Another thing worth mentioning is that you can be flexible about this in the Orc army as well, you don't need to commit to it from the start by leaving most of the first rank open, since the Lash allows you to get any line units that started behind Crazed Goblins into place if necessary.  It isn't very efficient, but leading with Crazed Gobbos can also backfire; if the opponent can afford to hold, for example, then you're unlikely to get enough damage out of the goblins to make them worth it.  If they were already planning on stand and shoot, deploying back just gives their artillery more time to shoot.  For this reason, you might want to consider placing your main line on the front row and bringing any guys you need to up with the Lash to replace goblins that run ahead.  That way if it turns out the opponent isn't vulnerable to disruption like that, you can deploy the goblins behind the lines as a backup unit.

Indeed, and that's why I mentioned this gambit working against a charging enemy.  But if you think the enemy is likely to hold (he's a stand and shoot, or he doesn't have a maneuvering army), than you simply deploy your main line forward and keep the Gobbos in the second line, to fill holes or create a pinching threat as you mentioned in the original unit assessment.

Giving the front line entirely to the Crazy Guys only work in some situations, but when it does, it means plenty of headaches for your opponent.