Author Topic: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)  (Read 29993 times)

gull2112

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4197
  • From the RUSH faction
    • Meditations on Brain Injury
Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2014, 08:19:30 AM »
In order to bring this discussion back on topic, I will add this:

I think the +2 dice charge is an Orc player's dream. Part of the Orc's flavor is the idea of scads of frenzied attackers. To this end they have several cards which allow for additional attack dice. If a player husbands his cards and combines them at the right moment this can result in Warhammeresque handfuls of dice. Although not necessarily easy to set up, I personally have been able to pull off the examples below on several occasions, including the Wolfrider's charges that almost oneshotted some Elven Knights AND some Bowriders in this session report http://ymgforum.com/index.php/topic,9978.0.html

Optimized Orc Marauders 7base+2charge+1Battle lust+1Lash+3Ferocity=14 attack dice, or
Optimized Wolfriders       6base+2charge+1Battle lust+1Lash+3Ferocity=13 attack dice + impact hit!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:23:17 AM by gull2112 »
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

gull2112

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4197
  • From the RUSH faction
    • Meditations on Brain Injury
Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2014, 09:04:33 PM »
Wow, I posted over 12 hours ago and nobody has responded. I guess I got the last word in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4670
Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2014, 12:51:58 AM »
Optimized Orc Marauders 7base+2charge+1Battle lust+1Lash+3Ferocity=14 attack dice

And then I play Mettle and they need 1s to wound.  Those 14 dice (and 3 CAs) amount to 1-2 points, for the cost of 1 CA from me.

Quote
, or
Optimized Wolfriders       6base+2charge+1Battle lust+1Lash+3Ferocity=13 attack dice + impact hit!

And Mettle brings it back down to 2-3 points, at again the cost of 1 CA vs your 3 CAs.


Extra dice is a bit of a red herring, because it can so easily be trumped by Command Cards.  In fact, I think Ferocity is a bit weak because of how easily it can be trumped.

gull2112

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4197
  • From the RUSH faction
    • Meditations on Brain Injury
Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2014, 08:55:09 AM »
Here's what I see as the flaw in that reasoning. You assume a ubiquitous mettle card. Granted, if you knew that was a favored tactic you could husband your resources and hold back your mettle card(s) to counter that, in which case I've gained an edge of sorts because I've got you reacting to an implied threat. To counter that counter I could swap out ferocity with accuracy and I'd still be throwing 10+ dice.

Obviously there are no sure things. That would break the game. However, to insinuate that a tactic is not valid just because there is a possible counter is itself not a valid point.

To be sure, lining up the perfect storm of Command cards is not a sure thing either. It is notable and remarkable that I was able to pull it off twice in one game. Hence the noted remark.  :D
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4670
Re: Taste the Lash! (Orc Units, Tactics, Etc)
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2014, 11:09:32 AM »
Here's what I see as the flaw in that reasoning. You assume a ubiquitous mettle card.

No offense, but if my counter is flawed because it relies on me drawing one card, then your plan is doubly flawed.   ;D

The thing is, the odds of having any 1 card isn't actually as low as we think it is.  Let's say we have both of ours lines run right at each other.  That's having the fight start on turn 3 of the first player. 

If Hawkshold moves first (i.e. the fight starts on Hawkshold turn 3) then the Hawkshold player has had 10 CAs to draw cards (2 for turn 1 and then 4 for turns 2 & 3).  The odds of me getting a Mettle is 56%, basically a coin flip.

If the Orcs move first, then the Hawkshold player will get 8 CAs to draw cards.  That lowers the odds of drawing a Mettle to 46%, but that is still pretty close to a coin flip.  So while its not a sure thing, it's also not crazy. 


But the greater point is that while throwing handfuls of dice seems very strong, its something that can be nullified by cards that "modify the pips" as well call it out here.  Say I don't play Mettle.  Say I use Hardened on the Marauders instead: 

Normal Charge (4s & 3s):  2.33 dmg
14 attack dice (4s & 3s):  4.67 dmg
vs a Hardened (4s & 2s):  2.88 dmg
Net change:  -1.78 dmg

Note how, despite using 2 cards & a Lash you're only doing +.55 dmg over a normal charge?  You dumped a ton of CAs into one attack that I nullified by playing Hardened (or Mettle). 


Let's look at how things fare with the Wolfriders.  Only this time, let's say I use a Parry instead of a Hardened:

Normal Charge (3s & 4s):  3.33 dmg
13 dice + impact (3s & 4s):  5 dmg
vs a Hardened (4s & 2s):  3.33 dmg
Net change:  -1.67 dmg

In this case, you're not doing any additional damage, despite using 3 CAs.  In this case, I can nullify it with either a Parry or a Mettle.

In each of these cases, we're now talking 1 of 4 cards that I can draw with my 8 or 10 CAs.  Its a 73% or 82% chance (respectively) that I get one of them.  You would have devoted 3 of your 10 CAs on that attack, which I nullified with 1 of my 8 CAs.  And that's the best case scenario!  Its possible you could have expended 3 of your 8 CAs which I nullified with only 1 of my 10 CAs.


My point here is that while it feels really cool to roll all those dice, the good feeling will pretty much stop there.  Because you're dumping so many CAs into getting extra dice, you're leaving yourself very vulnerable to having those dice trumped by your opponent changing the to-hit roll.  Rolling all those dice is one of those "nice on paper" kind of things.