Author Topic: Start Hand Bias?  (Read 7026 times)

ApokalypseTest

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Start Hand Bias?
« on: October 28, 2007, 01:33:29 AM »
I know, you have the mulligan Rule in in Order to Compensate for a week starting hand.

BUT I lost a considerable amount of games against the computer just because I got nothing but paratroopers and infantry while the computer got series of artillery and tanks.
I don't know the shuffle engine and if the computer gets the same draws that I get (I just assume he does).

Question is: Is the strong start hand effect desired? Especially with the hard time players have turning the game once it is set on a road, it seems to be very hard.

I am also not shure about infantry: Since they are the "standard"-Unit they also seem to be weaker then the others - what is their purpose?

andrewgr

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2007, 03:11:15 AM »
I've played many hundreds of games, and never seen any problem with starting hands.  I don't recall every getting just infantry and paratroopers, ever, in all those games.

The exact same shuffling algorithm is used for both the computer and for the human player.

If you have lost "a considerable amount of games" because of getting nothing but paratroopers and infantry, then there is something very wrong, but I don't know what it could be.  I've never seen that problem, nor have Darwin or Chad.

Not sure quite what to do with this feedback.  It is not intentional for the computer to get good hands and you to get bad hands, but I don't know how that could be happening.

Chad_YMG

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 04:57:28 PM »
I've certainly had a dozen or so games (both real and vs. the computer) where one player got pushed completely off the table because the other one had too good a start.  That was never just opening hand, but also the first few draws.

In most cases, however, you can come back even from quite bad starts.  Use Air Strikes to keep your opponent from taking your base and then take heart, because if his premium units are used up you're going to start outdrawing him.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

ApokalypseTest

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 12:29:50 AM »
@Andrew: I would not worry too much. It is unlikely but it looks like it is just chance. As Chad said - it also happens backwards. I tend to play fifty/fifty against easy by now (after some 30ish games played). I also got some ridiculouly easy starts by now where he did not stand a chance.

@Chad: Yeah, I can see that - but I think overall it is not easy or to likely to come back from a really bad start.

Very good game though - fast and fun to play.

Chad_YMG

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 10:20:21 AM »
@Chad: Yeah, I can see that - but I think overall it is not easy or to likely to come back from a really bad start.

There are definitely starts from which no recovery is possible, although I think they become fewer when you learn some gambits that can help fight for initiative even when you're on the ropes.  My gut feeling is that the truly unwinnable (against a non-perfect opponent) starts are relatively low compared to other games with random starts...and that those games are over so quickly that I don't really mind.  (The games I hate are ones where you have to play for a long time when you clearly have no chance.)
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

ApokalypseTest

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 11:56:22 AM »
Yes,

I agree with that. In general games that are made by your company seem to be rather decisive. That is a feature I really like. I agree with disliking to have to waste time on a game that is clearly lost. (or won for that matter).

Apoc


thanminhtu

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2010, 12:53:49 AM »
accuracy  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

gull2112

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2010, 03:44:26 PM »
Quote
I agree with disliking to have to waste time on a game that is clearly lost. (or won for that matter).

Here, Here. I have a favorite quote from a friend of mine back in the day when we would play the AH Civilization game:
"I hate spending 12 hours losing a game!"

Our reply in chorus was always, "Then don't take Crete!"
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

Chad_YMG

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 04:44:45 PM »
Be sure to check out My Kind of Town when it comes out (soon).  It has a Chicago gangster theme, but is essentially a quick-playing abstractish card game like Hill 218.  I takes even less time (less than 10 minutes) but, though the beauty of a mechanism Andrew Gross came up with, yields very interesting decisions throughout.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

gull2112

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 10:15:18 PM »
Let us know the preorder status!
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

Chad_YMG

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 11:46:35 AM »
Bleah, preorders.  :(

The Punic War preorders were a disaster.  Some of it was my fault -- things here were crazy, and I dropped some balls, but I had unprecedented problems with international orders.  I sent one order to Hong Kong three times, with two disappearing and one finding its way back here a couple of months after I sent it.

I'm still going to do preorders for Dark Elves and we'll piggy back My Kind of Town along with them...but I hope it goes better this time around.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

gull2112

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Re: Start Hand Bias?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 08:43:28 PM »
Quote
I'm still going to do preorders for Dark Elves and we'll piggy back My Kind of Town along with them...but I hope it goes better this time around.

Alright baby, that's what I'm talking about! 8)
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/