Author Topic: Balance with the Ammo rules  (Read 324 times)

quincy2112

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Balance with the Ammo rules
« on: April 30, 2020, 07:42:12 PM »
So, I played my first game with the 4.0 rulebook last week, and it felt like my Centaurs were significantly weaker due to the need to reload after every shot. Especially their special ability that let's them get a free ranged attack before a charge. It's kinda difficult to get that off, since ideally you'd have fired a shot the turn previous.

Also, I haven't played with them yet, but it seems like the Dwarf Crossbowmen benefit quite a bit from the change. They get 4 ammo, but they're totally competent in close quarters, and since they require LOS they probably belong on the front line anyways. It seems like they'll likely fire off their shots then be in melee before you need to worry much about reloading. So they get a big buff without the nerf of having to reload since they're fine in melee.

Am I wrong that it seems like balance has shifted a bit? Are there gonna be changes/errata to some cards to adapt?

Duane_Nordeen

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2020, 07:46:14 PM »
One thing I kept missing...

If the javelin unit is on "Close" they won't attack with their javelins until they charge.

Additionally, 3.0 errata is still in effect for Centaurs.  The Centaurs have unlimited ammo.

quincy2112

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 07:53:17 PM »
One thing I kept missing...

If the javelin unit is on "Close" they won't attack with their javelins until they charge.

Additionally, 3.0 errata is still in effect for Centaurs.  The Centaurs have unlimited ammo.

Ah! I printed out the faction specific errata and never noticed the javelin errata. Thank you, that's quite a buff for them.

Hannibal

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2020, 08:12:16 PM »
Also, I haven't played with them yet, but it seems like the Dwarf Crossbowmen benefit quite a bit from the change. They get 4 ammo, but they're totally competent in close quarters, and since they require LOS they probably belong on the front line anyways. It seems like they'll likely fire off their shots then be in melee before you need to worry much about reloading. So they get a big buff without the nerf of having to reload since they're fine in melee.

See if your thoughts hold up after playing them.  Some things to keep in mind:

- If they are on Close, they will get the Move & Shoot penalty for every shot they take (even on their opponent's turn)

- If they are on Ranged, they won't have the above penalty most times but they also won't get the charge bonus.  They'll definitely do more damage with from shooting, but losing the charge bonus means that the "net damage" is a little lower.

- Ranged units suffer a penalty if they shoot Not the Nearest Target, making concentrating fire a little more difficult.


And all in all, Crossbows pay to get that extra damage.

RushAss

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 02:48:36 PM »
Welcome Quicny, from one Rush fan to another!

One other general thing to keep in mind is that the new ranged rules have been balanced for the Ticking Clock and/or Breaking point scenarios.  Basically, scenarios you fight for 8 turns or scenarios where until you've destroyed 60% of the total points value of your enemie's units.  If you play Total Warfare (til somebody is totally wiped out) you may want to consider adding an ammo box or two because reloading ranged units and the end of a TW game is a major league drag.
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Hannibal

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 02:51:32 PM »
If you play Total Warfare (til somebody is totally wiped out) you may want to consider adding an ammo box or two because reloading ranged units and the end of a TW game is a major league drag.

I'd say try it with and without adding extra ammo boxes.  Because in Total Warfare you have situation where the number of units drops but your CAs remain constant.  That actually tends to free up the CAs quite a bit IMO.


That said, Marcus is waaaay more experienced at playing Total Warfare than I am.  More of a Breaking Point man myself.

quincy2112

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Re: Balance with the Ammo rules
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 10:36:29 PM »
Welcome Quicny, from one Rush fan to another!

One other general thing to keep in mind is that the new ranged rules have been balanced for the Ticking Clock and/or Breaking point scenarios.  Basically, scenarios you fight for 8 turns or scenarios where until you've destroyed 60% of the total points value of your enemie's units.  If you play Total Warfare (til somebody is totally wiped out) you may want to consider adding an ammo box or two because reloading ranged units and the end of a TW game is a major league drag.

I normally play Total Warfare, but with forfeits. But that is a good point that I should keep in mind, I hadn't considered the different scenarios.

I just grabbed Kingdoms, so scenario constraints may be more on the forefront of my mind. I also need to put my terrain pack into use...

Played with the crossbowmen yesterday. Honestly the fact that they only throw three dice make them not too threatening. I was undead, opponent was dwarves. I had a giant catapult to counter the crossbowmen, but he had a ballista which messed my catapult up pretty bad. On the other end of the fight, I let my skeleton trolls get pinched (risky) and they barely survived, but I pinched both of his units on the trolls and wiped them out relatively fast, without losing my trolls. In the center, my much weaker units were starting to lose their 1v1s, but by that point the trolls and company had wiped out their opposition, and that meant I had a skeleton cavalry coming in for big pinches and I'd be able to mop up pretty easily.

I still wonder about whether the change in rules was a buff to the crossbowmen (weren't most of the things Hannibal listed in the 3.0 rules too?) but I don't think they're dominant or terribly overpowered. Then again, they were shooting at a giant catapult, so they weren't able to do much to its 4 toughness. Maybe if my opponent were smarter in their shot selection, they would've performed better and my opinion of them would change.