Author Topic: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain  (Read 611 times)

Kevin

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Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« on: July 12, 2018, 11:19:16 PM »
Blakely and I did one of our usual games the other day.  Total Warfare.  2000 points, but I spotted Blakely the usual 100.  I also let her look at my army before building hers.  Standard rules (including no Underkill Rule *sigh*).





Set Up and Strategy

Rome, left to right:  Italian Cavalry, Veteran Principes, Triarii behind Principes, Extraordinarii, Triarii behind Extraordinarii, Triarii, Velites behind Velites.

A good army, designed to smash my center and outflank me on the left, while delaying me with cheap, annoying units on my right.

Lizardmen, left to right:  Trog Warriors, Trog Spearmen, Trog Spearmen behind Trog Spearmen, Trog Spearmen, Raptor Pack behind Ancients. 

Pretty simple:  crush the right flank and roll the line.  Given the set p, Swapping two Trog Spearmen for something big would've been more effective, but this army did give me the option to put my heavies on the other side and have the Raptor Pack go through the woods.




Choosing Chaos

Notice the dice, all representing location targets to hold on, all at the corners of several Lizardmen units.

Units move forwad.  Blakely's units were on Close, but had alternate initial moves and speed caps to make the left side to forward, while I had units on Hold with location targets.

I don't have a photo, but picture the turn before this, with all Lizardmen units except for the Raptor Pack a bit to the right.  So the Ancients are aimed at a Skirmisher/Triarii combo, while next to them Extraordinarii are about to engage Trog Spearmen.  If that goes forward, Blakely wins a clean victory, as she'll break through my center at least as quickly as my powerful right flank will get through her cheap crap, while she has the wider line on the left and (barring an unlucky rout) eventually will roll my line with a cavalry pinch.

So instead, I choose chaos.  The Ancients are Direct Controlled, allowing the skirmishers to flank/pinch on the Ancients, while baiting the Extraodinarii to rush my big guys  That pushes everybody else to the left. Definitely less as a game-winning move than a "This is going to to suck for both of us instead of just me." move.





Bad Throws

2 turns later.  Blakely spend 2 Command Actions to hold her units back from the Ancients, and a third to hold her Italian Cavalry back from the Trogs, now that my sideways-shuffle meant they were facing units straight on.  Her units threw pila and whiffed horribly--my army takes a total of 1 point of damage from 3 pila throws and 2 Skirmisher javelin throws (which with an Underkill Rule should do nothing, but instead Blakely had the courtesy not to roll 1s.)

My turn, the Ancients engage, somewhat underperforming given that they had an Accuracy card and Fury, but still putting on a bit of hurt.  Meanwhile, the Raptor Pack hits her Velites and my dice go hot--the skirmishers die on damage and don't even get a chance to blow a second rout check.





Engagements

Left to right:

Blakely burns another CA holding back her Italian Cavalry.

Veteran Principes throw their first pila.

Principes and Extraordinarii engage my Trog Spearmen, throwing pila again.  Blakely's dice are fairly cold, so my Trogs hold up OK--I even have some real hope to win the fight vs. the Principes.


Velites pinch my Ancients, who don't care.  Blakely puzzles me a little bit by burning a CA to slide the Triarii to the side a bit which guaranteed they couldn't pinch the Ancients.





Another One Three Bite the Dust

Left to right:

Another CA burned holding back the Italian Cavalry.

I pull back my Trog Spearmen a bit--they'll take a second pila throw, but won't be engaged until two turns later.  I also accidentally do a brilliant move with this--more on that later.

A Courage of Numbers card keeps the Principes in the line.

Trog Spearmen rout when the go into the yellow!  I declare backup rule and move the other Trogs into the line.  They'll ikely lose, but at least Blood Frenzy is on, so it'll likely take a while. 

Ancients, getting lots of red card love, wipe out the Extraordanarii, with Triarii stepping forward to take their place.

Raptors counter-pinch and explode Velites who were pinching the Ancients.




Romans Break Through

Left to right:

Italian Cavalry had to move forward as a flank guard, so my Trog Warriors engage.  They muff their first two attakck, though, doing 1 hit point each and take more damage than that themselves!

Veteran Principes one-shot my Trog Spearmen, who rout when they hit the yellow.  However, due to me pulling them back before, the adjacent Trogs are just slightly outside their front arc.

I had high hopes to win the Trog Spearmen-Principes grindfest until the Principes break through.

Extraordinarii are beating up Trogs #2.

Blakely cleverly slides her final backup Triarii to the right, so when the Ancient break through Triarii here come some more to take their place!

Raptors engage the Triarii on the far right, and are likely to win this...but how long will it take?




Decisive Rout

It take 3 turns to force a rout check, but the Italian Cav, needing a 9, blow two checks and pop.  My unit will be able to attack the Veteran Principes, who are out of pila, head on.

Trog Spearmen get a Regeneration card and hang on with two hit points. They're about to get pinched and explode.

While the Ancients whiff, the Triarii on the far right go into the red, run for it, and are torn apart by Raptors, who are in a position to pinch.  This rout was decisive, as it meant the Ancients' opponent would get pinched before they did.








Endgame

On the left, Trogs do a pathetic 1 point to the Vetaran Principes, but that forces a rout check and off they go!  The Veteran Principes reform and it's still an even fight, but nothing is happening yet.

My Trog Spearmen to the Ancients' left are pinched away, but so are the Triarii that those Ancients are engaging, so now the best she can hope for is to flank a Blood-Frenzying Toughness-4 unit.  Blakely pulls her Extraordinarii back, hoping to prevent a pinch, but my heavies go Twos-Company, easily destroying the already-heavily-wounded unit.  Blakely concedes.



Victory to the Lizardmen

Let's keep in mind that had my army just gone forward, Blakely's Romans would've won in a slam-dunk.  As it was, it came very close to a coin flip.  Her dice were cold initially, but got a lot better, and while she has a few routs late in the game, I had a couple  fairly early.  Similarly, my army was pretty beat up by the end.

But it's still worth looking at why the Romans lost despite having more points and knowing the other sides' build.  I'd say there was no one big error, but a bunch of littler things that added up.

- Command Action mismatch.  Counting Fury as a command cards, I probably got 5 or 6 more cards than she did over the course of the game.  On the left, given that her cavalry were in no position to engage Trogs head-on, a Hold order might've saved her an action or two.  on the right, it's very debatable whether it was worth 2 Command Actions to delay the Extraordinarii + Velites vs. Ancients fight by a round, particularly when by delaying they only got a pinch for 1 turn rather than 2.  Similarly, I'm not sure there was any benefit to sliding around the rightmost Triarii. 

- Front Arcs.  It was a bit fortuitous, but on the left my Trog Spearmen were positioned so that the victorious Veteran Principes would not have an opponent within range and in their front art.  Blakely could have engineered a similar set up with the Triarii on the far right, but didn't.

- No Spearmen.  Granted, Italian Spearmen would've died quickly vs. anything else, but after a few units down it would be pretty obvious where my Ancients were going,   Holding Spearmen had a good shot at getting the Ancients into the red before they went down.

- Weak flank too weak.  Skirmishers, if not careful, can cock-block the own side.  By having a weak flank that poses virtually no threat, I was able to completely ignore it and offer a pinch.  Worth noting that Tim Sheehy once did something like this to me

- Italian Cavalry.  This excellent unit is an iffy choice vs. an All-Trog-and-heavier army, when it was guaranteed to lose any one-on-one fight.  Sure, it would be extremely deadly when pinching, but it's possible that a skirmisher will be deadly enough in that role for 50 points cheaper.

In any case, it was well played and very close.  Good game, Blakely!  :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 01:53:51 PM by Kevin »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

Kevin

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 09:24:38 PM »
One other possible meta thing is that, if the job of your skirmishers is to slow down the opponent, get them further out in front of your army where they're less likely to get in your own way and more likely to be the closest opponent of multiple enemy units.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

gornhorror

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 02:17:05 PM »
The next time I play against Kevin in a tournament can he spot me 100 points?  :)
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 09:46:52 AM »
Nice report Kev!  I personally hate playing Rome against Lizardmen because they simply have no good answer to defensive toughness 4.  The Lizzie big guys may feel the initial sting against spears, but after that good luck damaging on 1s. 

I do see what Blakely was intending to do with the Italian Cavalry.  She had her head in the right place.
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Kevin

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 01:10:13 PM »
Quote
The next time I play against Kevin in a tournament can he spot me 100 points?  :)

Hey when Blakely and I met across the table at the last tournament I gave her nothing.

Quote
I personally hate playing Rome against Lizardmen because they simply have no good answer to defensive toughness 4.  The Lizzie big guys may feel the initial sting against spears, but after that good luck damaging on 1s.

Yeah, basically all you can do is slow them down with skirmishers and Triarii until such time as they can be pinched--Dave's Lizardmen experienced this from my Romans when he took a pair of Ancients at Championship 2014.  Blakely had the exact right idea, but an imperfect execution.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

Kevin

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 09:16:06 AM »
And in other news, I'm 2 posts away from complete ownership of page 1 of "Session Reports," an "honor" i really don't want.    :-\
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

RushAss

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 01:58:48 PM »
I know, I know.  It's something we're working to remedy.
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Hannibal

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Re: Lizardmen - Rome 2000 Terrain
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 12:35:12 PM »
I personally hate playing Rome against Lizardmen because they simply have no good answer to defensive toughness 4.  The Lizzie big guys may feel the initial sting against spears, but after that good luck damaging on 1s. 

This right here is my reservation to the Spear proposal (only +1 Pow) in a nutshell.  I think T4 guys are brutal in general and I will charge into enemy Spearmen with them now.  And if I have a card?  Oof, that's a bad day for those Spearmen.  Often times I'll even be willing to pitch 2 cards to play even just a Hardened on a unit like a Hill Giant or a T-Rex.  And when I can do it at no penalty for units like Ancients.... that's brutal.