Author Topic: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!  (Read 27192 times)

Niko White

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The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« on: September 28, 2009, 12:46:26 PM »

I have finished my first draft of the 3.0 Battleground rules.

Because the thing is massive, I can't easily post it here, but I would love for you rules people to take a look at it and tell me what's still unclear, see what you think of the changes, etc.

The rules are in a Google Doc, and I'll be making a google group to discuss them.  PM me your email, and I'll be glad to add you to both.

In the second post of the thread, I've included the draft "change log" noting functional changes as opposed to clarifications and reordering.  The changes are in no particular order.  Feel free to use the thread to discuss these, or whatever.

Niko White

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 12:58:59 PM »

As promised, here's the change log to whet your appetite:


-Pinching is now possible even if Two's-Company would also be legal; made Two's-Company an option in all cases rather than being required.
-Card overlap is now allowed so long as no center point of any card comes into contact with any part of another card.
-Indirect Path now covers any "conditional": either your own unit (because it might move) or terrain that slows you down; you get a choice to take the fastest route, or the direct one.
-Impossible Path is a new rule covering the fastest movement being permanently illegal (usually due to impassable terrain).  In this case, you are required to take the fastest legal route.
-Units now only count enemies in the air as the nearest enemy if they are specifically targeted.
-Follow is now a core order; added support for it in the rules.
-Orders now determine who you target to shoot at, but not if you shoot; it was strange that every standing order had to tell you that you shot, when really the intent is "you always shoot."
-Changed "no final rush into a pinch" from a rule (which implied incorrect things about the game) to a clarification.
-Courage Phases become one phase that happens twice rather than two separately named phases (no real difference.)
-Added a time for Other Courage Checks, immediately after Fear checks.
-Changed the Courage Phase order so that Fear and Other come immediately after Rout checks, rather than waiting for free attacks, second rout checks, and rout movement.  (Easier to track and remember; unit might be afraid when making free attacks.)
-Changed the way units deal with routing and who they run from so it makes more sense.
-Units on Follow are now back-up units.
-Back-up rule is more permissive (units can back up two friendly units at once.)
-Large units with line of sight attacks can now shoot over non-large friendly units, even if the target is not itself Large.
-You are no longer forced to avoid rolling attacks against units that are already dead.  (Relevant for damage triggers, etc.)
-You now get the bonus for flanking an enemy even if you aren't attacking with your front.
-You can't change a unit's standing order while it is engaged.  (Fixes defended obstacle and spearmen shenanigans, also makes sense.)
-Unified "defended obstacle/fortification" and "cover" into one cover rule, making it much easier to deal with.
-Clarified Foresight if Carthage are used as Mercenaries.
-No one can swim.  (Water too deep for a unit to walk in is now impassable.)
-Colossal units are now better at negotiating most terrain than Large units, and can pass through deeper water more easily.
-Revised some bonuses and penalties for terrain in light of units losing the ability to swim (cover for swimming units, shoreline defended obstacle bonus against swimmers, etc.)
-Consolidated identical terrain (Wet Ground/Sand; Low Walls/Hedges) into the same sections to save text.
-Colossal units now do take rout checks if pinched by another colossal unit.  (I expect this to come up a lot!)
-Changed the minimum damage rule on colossal units from "non-shooting attacks" to "engaged attacks" to clarify interaction with spells or if we make odd attacks in the future.
-Clarified spell range for non-attack spells (front center to any center; no LOS required.)
-Clarified direct damage attack spell interaction with command cards.

ajax98

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 02:18:30 PM »
Most interesting. I'm in.

RushAss

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 03:26:24 PM »
I'm also in.
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

ZiNOS

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 04:12:33 PM »
In!
DON'T PANIC <-------In Large Friendly Letters

Chad_YMG

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 12:03:34 PM »
Big thanks to Niko for doing the revision and for everyone who pitches in to make Battleground better and better.
David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules

RushAss

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 02:57:02 PM »
You can thank me with free coffee.
"You can never break the chain - There is never love without pain
A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart
A healing hand, as secret touch on the heart"
-Rush, Secret Touch

gull2112

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2009, 03:54:42 PM »
Free coffee? I'm in! 8)

Seriously though, I'm in.
"Rules are only as good as the book they're bound in."
http://gullsbattleground.blogspot.com/

lazyj

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 04:01:32 PM »
Add me to the in crowd.

Yokiboy

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 06:06:50 PM »
I'd love to help out as well.

Niko White

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 10:40:06 PM »

I'm about to add people who have sent me their emails.

If you said "in" in this thread but didn't get added, it is probably because you didn't contact me otherwise to give me your email  ;D

Kevin

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2009, 09:42:23 PM »
Cool!   8)

One change which isn't listed, but which Chad suggested doing in a previous thread http://yourmovegames.com/forum/index.php/topic,878.0.html (and I'd like to see made official), is to allow units who are final rushing (and only those who are final rushing) to move partially off the map.

The bit about two's company being optional is a bit confusing as summarized in this thread, but maybe it'll be clear in the rules itself.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

ajax98

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 12:47:05 AM »
A good point. I haven't correlated all the notes to the draft info yet.

Might be in the manner in which "overlap" is being addressed. Impassible terrain / map edge would be part of this issue.
From the looks of it there won't be much flexibility there.
Something more specific will need to be considered, perhaps.

Hamilcar

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 09:38:44 AM »
This initial list of features/rules changes looks very solid.
Some of them I assumed were rules already, but it's good they will be in writing  ;)

Scott

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Re: The Battleground Rules: Version 3.0!
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 03:36:18 PM »
I read through the rules and noted my questions below.  I'm a newbie but trying to learn the rules, so take these comments/questions/suggestions however you like.



?0.1 Introduction
Quickstart?  What is the best introduction and way to start games?  The quickstart in this rule set seems more of a summary without any of the details necessary to actually play when starting (the old rules quickstart seemed like a reasonable way to start playing).

1.1.1. (Assigning standing orders)
Standing orders may change from routing or getting to objective

1.1.3.  (Ranged order)
Range order-unit will stop if in range of a unit. In giant example, can you expend the extra command early (or at any time) so giant will attack at range when gets there?

1.1.5. (Follow order)
How is nearest non center point measured?

1.4.1.4.  (Nearest Enemy)
What if terrain blocks view of both armies, who is nearest enemy (none are clearly visible). What do units do that are on command "C"?

1.4.5. (Maneuvers)
I didn't understand this before and I'm still not clear about it:  "A unit can't maneuver if the penalty would decrease its MC to less than the distance it has already moved this turn."

Does this mean if a unit moves LS (or even LL) and has already moved L then it can't do the special moves because that would drop it below what it has already moved.

1.4.5.2.  (Move Sideways)
Does this mean you can reduce the movement 1 MC and then measure from one side of the card (like the forward measurement). What about turning while moving to side?

1.4.5.5.  (Turn)
It seems one could perform a turn to move slightly forward but move sideways and thereby not pay the penalty by moving sideways.

1.4.6.1. (Final Rush Priority)
I think this means a unit can be on H and then changed to C and then final rush.

If final rushes are done sequentially can a possible final rush become impossible (or impossible become possible as other units move and rush.

1.4.6.2. (Final Rush Exclusivity)
Does this mean two opposing units can have each other as H-objectives and then touch each other (and possibly take the extra turn to position on objective unit) and both units just stand there looking at each other without attacking?  In order to attack one would have to be given C command?

1.4.6.3.3. (Open side) 
Do we final rush nearest open side or facing side?

1.4.6.3.4.  (Open Path)
What if nearest open side has no open path but another open side has a clear path?

1.4.6.3.5.  (No Turning back)
What if final rush not legal?

1.4.6.6. (Pinches)
I think a pinch check is only made once per turn.

1.4.7.2. (Indirect Path)
Do I have this right?  Indirect path rule gives a few choices: move forward and hit obstruction (terrain, unit) and just sit there, move forward hit obstruction and then move around, or anticipate obstruction (if it is terrain only??) and then make quickest movement around.  Can a unit do something in between (anticipate obstruction make take an intermediate path?)

1.4.7.4.  (Tiny Gap Rule)
I think I understand this but it could probably be made more clear with an example or two.  I think the point is if a unit routs but is trapped by friendly units, then it can disengage with the enemy unit routing it and therefore not be destroyed by the routing engagement rule.  Is this correct?

1.4.7.5 Units Already Engaged
I can already see it--which units are actually moved?  Moving one or the other could be a benefit to one side or the other.

1.4.7.6.2 Routing into Friendly Units
If a routing unit moves through a friendly unit, does it gain an additional 2.5" of movement by moving through the card or is this movement taken away from its maximum movement?

1.4.7.6.3 Routing to the Table Edge
If it begins in contact with the edge of the table, do you have a chance to rally the unit or it is destroyed?  I would guess this should be worded, "if a routing unit begins the combat phase in contact . . ."

2.1.1 Failed Rout Checks
Turning engaged units seems to give a lot of freedom.  Does the card orientation have to remain the same?  (I'm guessing not since this seems to be covered by the Note)

2.2 Fear Checks
So the penalty of a fear check is only one turn?

2.5 Rout Movement
So a routing unit turn around, runs 2" and runs into an enemy and has to stop.  Are they now engaged and therefore destroyed?  Or, are they almost but not quite touching and therefore not engaged (since they can only engage by a final rush)?  I just don't understand the typical situations when a unit would be engaged after routing (especially since a unit unengaged and be unable to move due to a friendly unit.

Also, the routing movement is supposed to move its full movement toward the player's side of the table.  What if the routing unit is faced to the side of the table.  What happens then--will it be faced toward the edge of the table after routing movement?

2.6 Courage Cleanup
Does this mean a unit could be in a loop until they are destroyed?  So, a unit fails a courage check, takes a free attack and is put into the yellow, still engaged (so, it should probably just be destroyed) and takes another courage check and fails.  I'm not sure what could possibly happen in this phase.

3.1.1 Shooting Attack Defenders
I didn't see anywhere where "unblocked line" is defined.  Since indirect fire attacks can occur, its not clear to me what this means (or why it is necessary).  (Or, maybe unblocked is defined in below where it talks about line of sight and indirect attacks).

3.1.1.2 Line of Sight Attacks
In 2nd example, I think the first "If" should be deleted.

3.1.1.3 Low Arc Attacks
Since these can not fire at engaged units, perhaps they are not more flexible (as stated) than line of sight attacks, just different.

3.2.3.2.4. Attacking to rear
I think the bonus is negative.

3.2.3.2.5 Pinching
What if A and B are pinching X but X and Y are pinching B who gets bonuses?

6.3 Terrain Types
All these terrains would be very nice in a chart.

7.6 Skirmishers
The routing rules are quite clear--there is no free attack but they may have to have another rout-check if the automatic dammage drops them to yellow/red?  What about if they do their rout movement and are engaged, are they destroyed automatically?  I assume they are automatically rallied to hold but can they then be ordered something else that same and attack the same turn they were rallied?

7.6.1 Skirmisher Recall
So this would mean it gives up any attack the skirmishers may have had?

7.6.2 Routing Skirmishers
Moving through an enemy unit, could it possibly add to the MC of the skirmisher?  And, if the skirmisher moves through a friendly, these rules seem to imply that they are rallied on the opponents turn and thus can fight the next turn.