Author Topic: Alexander questions  (Read 442 times)

gornhorror

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Alexander questions
« on: July 03, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »
Do units like Agema and Iphicratean Spearmen get a -1 dice when they charge?  It doesn't say it on the card, but they are a spearmen unit. 

Also, does Inspiration give +2 dice to a ranged attack also?  I hope not.
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Kevin

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 01:03:00 PM »
They don't get the (-1) penalty on the charge.  The reasoning, IIRC, was that spearmen normally get 5 dice rather than 6 because the second line hasn't yet gotten into a good formation to help out the first line.  However, IS and Ag are loose formations that only get 4 dice to begin with, so there's not much of a second line, period.

I can't recall the answer to your second question, but even if that's the case, why is that so bad?  Alexander doesn't have any particularly good shooters, and getting 2 mediocre dice, which you're not able to throw a card on top of that, seems like a wildly inefficient use of a Command Action.
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Hannibal

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2017, 01:22:57 PM »
Do units like Agema and Iphicratean Spearmen get a -1 dice when they charge?  It doesn't say it on the card, but they are a spearmen unit. 

Nope, they don't take the penalty.  Spear units with 6 dice get it because the length of their pointy sticks gets them extra attacks, but when they charge they break that turtle-like formation.  Iphicratean style spear units have fewer guys fighting in a looser formation, so when they charge the 4 dice represents all of the guys being able to get their attacks.  However when they set vs a charging unit, they simply lack the manpower to get any extra dice.  In short:  fewer guys in a looser formation means they can bring all of their numbers to bear, but they don't actually have a lot of numbers.


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Also, does Inspiration give +2 dice to a ranged attack also?  I hope not.

Yes, for the reasons Kevin pointed out.  On Thracian javelins you're talking like an extra 1/3 of a pt, which tends to be a poor use of a command action.  On Cretan Archers you can get +1/2pt of damage with it, which is almost (but not quite) as good as spending a command card.  That's not to say spending a command card on Cretan Archers is a good idea, it's just that both produce roughly the same mediocre results.

gornhorror

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2017, 09:11:33 PM »
I can't recall the answer to your second question, but even if that's the case, why is that so bad?  Alexander doesn't have any particularly good shooters, and getting 2 mediocre dice, which you're not able to throw a card on top of that, seems like a wildly inefficient use of a Command Action.

I guess because it isn't needed IMHO.  Historical armies are strong enough and I think it would of been better if this was an engaged only ability.  It just doesn't seem right to me that all it takes is a command action and all of a sudden a cheap ranged unit gets more hit dice that a normal ranged unit that costs about 3 times as much.  (Hawk archers come to mind)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:02:06 PM by gornhorror »
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gornhorror

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2017, 10:00:35 PM »
Do units like Agema and Iphicratean Spearmen get a -1 dice when they charge?  It doesn't say it on the card, but they are a spearmen unit. 

Nope, they don't take the penalty.  Spear units with 6 dice get it because the length of their pointy sticks gets them extra attacks, but when they charge they break that turtle-like formation.  Iphicratean style spear units have fewer guys fighting in a looser formation, so when they charge the 4 dice represents all of the guys being able to get their attacks.  However when they set vs a charging unit, they simply lack the manpower to get any extra dice.  In short:  fewer guys in a looser formation means they can bring all of their numbers to bear, but they don't actually have a lot of numbers.

I'm just saying that perhaps the bonus and their overall effectiveness could of been less.  You could of done that by giving them -1 on the charge which is the same spear penalty that every other spear unit gets when they charge.  I know that there are rational explanations for why a certain unit gets this and gets that, but if logic was always adhered to in this game, then a human unit carrying a 7+ foot spear and large shield (+1 vs ranged) should not be moving at the same top speed as knights on horseback. However these units somehow do.





« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:05:38 PM by gornhorror »
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Kevin

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM »
IIRC in real life the Iphicratean Spearmen quite literally were souped-up skirmishers.   Non-archer Skirmishers move 5".

As to "it isn't necessary."  The ability to put the Rune of Uruz on Shortbeards, or Precision on the Celestial Guard, is pretty superfluous too.  But nobody saw fit to bloat the rules to prohibit those just because they might be tactically inadvisable.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:36:42 PM by Kevin »
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Hannibal

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 12:14:36 AM »
I can't recall the answer to your second question, but even if that's the case, why is that so bad?  Alexander doesn't have any particularly good shooters, and getting 2 mediocre dice, which you're not able to throw a card on top of that, seems like a wildly inefficient use of a Command Action.

I guess because it isn't needed IMHO.  Historical armies are strong enough and I think it would of been better if this was an engaged only ability.  It just doesn't seem right to me that all it takes is a command action and all of a sudden a cheap ranged unit gets more hit dice that a normal ranged unit that costs about 3 times as much.  (Hawk archers come to mind)

So, um, in your mind: 81 x 3 = 165  ?

And comparing a 14" indirect fire archer unit and a 10.5" line of sight is not at all apples to apples.  The indirect fire unit costs more because it will get more turns of shooting, because it can park behind a unit and shoot.

I know that there are rational explanations for why a certain unit gets this and gets that, but if logic was always adhered to in this game, then a human unit carrying a 7+ foot spear and large shield (+1 vs ranged) should not be moving at the same top speed as knights on horseback. However these units somehow do.

You do know that Agrianians and Macedonian Foot Companions are both humans, right?

Speed is not just about racial traits.  It's about formation as well.  A unit of humans in formation is not moving anywhere near top speed.  They're moving at a march, somewhere about 3-4 mph.  The looser formation of the Iphicratean Spearmen lets them move at a jogging pace of about 6-8mph.

Similarly, Knights did not charge their horses at top speed because they rode "knee to knee" in tight formation vs the less dense formation of later (and earlier) cavalry units.

gornhorror

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 10:17:32 AM »
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So, um, in your mind: 81 x 3 = 165  ?
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Sorry, I meant to say Ravenwood Archers.  My mistake.

 






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Hannibal

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Re: Alexander questions
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 12:09:12 PM »
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So, um, in your mind: 81 x 3 = 165  ?
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Sorry, I meant to say Ravenwood Archers.  My mistake.

Yeah and that's even less apples to apples.   ;D   Ravenwood archers are 14", indirect fire (twice as many turns shooting), and Off Skill 6.