Author Topic: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017  (Read 4493 times)

BubblePig

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2017, 06:04:26 PM »
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I partially agree with this.  IMO the thing that really killed Ron is that he was trying to be fancy with a single skirmisher unit that literally blocked both of his own elephants from engaging for the entirety of the game because Kevin never took the bait.

This. 

Also, kind of a deja vu on our semifinals game at Championship 2017, where Ron's heavies (facing my lighter units) also got cock-blocked by his own skirmisher "bait."
Hey, I prefaced by saying I don't have the hang of Persia yet. Seriously, blocking my heavies was bad, but I was desperate to break Kevin's formation, and giving him opportunities to make a mistake seemed like the only option.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 06:07:23 PM by BubblePig »

RushAss

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2017, 09:15:39 PM »
Oh, I'm not saying I would have done better by any means  :P
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Kevin

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2017, 01:16:55 PM »
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OK getting slightly off topic here, but it's worth pointing out that before Thanvabara came into existence there were very similar units in the Rome/Carthage set.  Cretan Archers are identical to the Thanvabara except that they have 3 green boxes rather than 2 (one less box of another color) and one better courage and IIRC cost 77.
True, but Cretan and Moorish Archers are Elite so you can never have more than 2 of them in a singe game.  Ron had 7 Thanvabara in his game against Brook and IIRC he took at least 5 in each of his other non-Kevin games.

OK, but Carthage has Core (!) Balearic Slingers for 73.  Sure, the slingers are range 7" rather than 10.5", but at MC 5", 3 green boxes, and 1 higher courage they have much, much more survivability.  (Doubly so if you have CAs to spare on direct controls.)

Again, I'm not saying that Thanvabara aren't an issue, just that if they are it's a skirmisher-wide issue and that hiking their price but leaving others unchanged really doesn't make sense.  It's too bad Ron didn't spam Thanvabara against me, as that seems to worry me a lot less than other folks--though admittedly maybe they're something I'm missing. 

(Once in playtest I did spam Thanvabara and Sparabara back when they both were Core, and that was seriously ugly (I was putting out over 40 dice of archery per turn!  It helped that Jaime had taken a Giant War Elephant so my rear-line guys has a valid target.), but we figured making them both Standard would greatly reduce that issue.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:11:13 PM by Kevin »
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

Dave-SWA

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2017, 02:20:59 PM »
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Again, I'm not saying that Thanvabara aren't an issue, just that if they are it's a skirmisher-wide issue and that hiking their price but leaving others unchanged really doesn't make sense.

It is a skirmisher-wide issue.

All skirmishers have a special ability informally-called "Stop the progress and receive the charge of any formed unit, and resolve the Final Rush via special rules".
I believe that special ability is undercosted for all skirmish units.

The game balance is off when a sub-90-point skirmish unit can totally impede the movement of a formed unit.  What makes it more blatant is when that unit represents a more extreme example, like a T-Rex.

I have said this many times (starting back in 2011, as seen here), and I will continue to say it until the skirmish rules are totally rewritten to come more in line with other miniatures games.

-DC
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 02:42:39 PM by Dave-SWA »
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gornhorror

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2017, 10:58:04 PM »
I've been saying all along that Skirmishers were too powerful for the points.  What happened this past weekend just makes me feel more strongly about it.  I also agree with what Dave is saying about being able to final rush through a Skirmisher unit. 

Maybe there should be a limit to how many you can take in a game.  Perhaps 1 per 500 points. 

Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

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Re: Battleground Tournament at Highlander Games in Boonton NJ Summer 2017
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2017, 11:41:34 PM »
I've created a thread in the Rules team for skirmisher discussion.
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
-Rush, Natural Science