Author Topic: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016  (Read 5759 times)

Kevin

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 10:37:20 AM »
Quote
Ostegun! WE WON!!! With one raptor pack with one single hit point!

Let's see a report or I'm going to be an unhappy camper.  ;)
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

NegativeZer0

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2016, 11:01:20 AM »
Sorry you had to be there   ;D

While some pictures were taken i don't think anyone was taking enough to do any reports
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 11:25:16 AM by NegativeZer0 »
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Moose

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2016, 11:22:13 AM »
Sorry I missed Sunday. I was up all night sick, and finally gave up at about 5 am and decided to just go home  :-\ Very fun event, and interesting scenarios.

Ostegun

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2016, 01:37:17 PM »
 Agreed very interesting scenarios. 

I wish we could have played each other too. Those Wuxing felt like playing against Alexander the great Jaime really kicked my ###.
The bull bears it's horns in hope. Hope to fend off those who would feed on it's love. The love of all the ones who held the wall upon which all memories have been written. Existence fussed to rip and explode the bull into the breach of threat.To scream in all the colors the essence of it's love.

NegativeZer0

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2016, 01:40:05 PM »
Overall i think the scenarios worked out well but i certainly learned a few things and saw some ways i could have improved on the ideas i had.  If there is a next time i hope to have even better scenarios to throw at everyone.

Round 1 -  I maintain that you all lack creativity.  There were several ways to play that out and you all chose the boring option   :(

Round 2 - while play testing showed the archers to be an improvement in speeding up the game in hindsight they got in the way too much.  If i were to do this again i would reduce the archers down to 2 and allow the players to pick where the archers went.  I think this would have been a large improvement.

Round 3 - While the barn caused  :'( for one particular player I think overall this went well.

Round 4 - After getting feed back on this one i may recycle this scenario.  I think the idea is great but i have some improvements in mind that will make it much less "clunky"

Day 2 Round 5 - This was fairly straight forward with the twist being hunting down the enemy commander.  So ill use this to talk about the commander units.  I really debated about using them or not.  In the end I think they added a nice twist without adding too much complexity or absurdity.

Round 6 - Due to the long weekend the players elected to simply do a standard team game to end the weekend.  I was perfectly okay with this because the campaign had literally been fought to a dead even draw and the last scenario game that would have been played kind of assumed one side was winning by this point.  

So looking for specific feedback

Commanders:
Would you want to use the commander idea again?
Did you like the way to gain exp?
Were the upgrades too cheap/expensive?

Phoenix:
No one used it.  Why?
Too expensive?
Too much else going on?

Points / Command actions
So it was not unintentional that armies were bigger vs how many command actions you got
Ex 1750 + Commander is nearly 2000 points but only 3 command actions.  Was the lower command actions and by extension lower card draw better or worse than just a normal 2000 point build.  Im really leaning towards 1750 and 2250 being the better points cost for standard games (vs 1500/2000)

The merc forces
Was this fun or would you just prefer your normal army?
While it was important for this campaign to add some theme I am curious to know if it was liked or not.

I think thats everything

 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 02:40:51 PM by NegativeZer0 »
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Ostegun

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2016, 04:25:56 PM »
I liked the commander unit but I think it should be a bit better from the get go. Maybe a (4)5-5/2-3/13/3.5" to indicate a smaller number of though bodyguards. Harder to kill but not that powerfull on the attack. I would go as far as making it a (3)5-5/2-3/13/3.5". Loved the xp points for the commander but I would prefer for the xp to boost command in some way instead of stat such as a free rally to units within 3.5 of the commander or by the end of the campaign for him to add a command action per turn if alive or even just once during the battle.

The scenarios where great and I thought all of them where very good ideas. The fenix was well priced I feel, a good deal people just went for what they knew. I personally like to do 1500/2000/2500 XD but 1750 and 2250 seem like a good way to help the high elves. XD
The bull bears it's horns in hope. Hope to fend off those who would feed on it's love. The love of all the ones who held the wall upon which all memories have been written. Existence fussed to rip and explode the bull into the breach of threat.To scream in all the colors the essence of it's love.

RushAss

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2016, 06:02:31 PM »
I'll have more to post later, but I just wanted to thank you all for coming and thank Eric for running a really interesting event.  I had a blast and it was great to see you all again.  And it was great to meet the mighty Ostegun!  I'll get around to getting some pictures up.

I hope you're feeling better Steve!
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
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gornhorror

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2016, 02:03:18 PM »
I do applaud Eric for his very creative idea.  I really loved the descriptions of the scenarios between games.  For the most part I had fun but I did think that some of the games were a bit "busy" for my taste. 

Not much went right for me over the weekend.  I pretty much failed all critical rout checks and picked the wrong units in every scenario.  I think I used up all of my good fortune in my Star Fleet Battles matchups.

I did learn a few things though.  Faith Armor is too powerful and I think should be changed to the polar opposite of Fury.  It shouldn't be able to stop a damage if only one is done.  Faith armor would be too strong in any army but in the context of the Umenzi it's waaaaaaay too powerful.  Combine that with the leadership range ability and it takes forever to make a hole even against their weaker units.  Ranged based armies don't have a chance against this faction.  Curse this, bless that.  I had a game against Marcus where I was drawing cards in the beginning and I got exactly what I needed and it still didn't matter.  He was faith armoring his units like crazy and really didn't draw command cards until like turn 3 or 4(Not sure about the turn but he went a few turns and never drew cards).  That should tell you something.  If a faction ability is chosen over drawing command cards consistently over many turns it's obviously too strong.


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RushAss

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2016, 11:43:23 PM »
Faith armor would be too strong in any army but in the context of the Umenzi it's waaaaaaay too powerful.  Combine that with the leadership range ability and it takes forever to make a hole even against their weaker units.  Ranged based armies don't have a chance against this faction.  Curse this, bless that.  I had a game against Marcus where I was drawing cards in the beginning and I got exactly what I needed and it still didn't matter.  He was faith armoring his units like crazy and really didn't draw command cards until like turn 3 or 4(Not sure about the turn but he went a few turns and never drew cards).  That should tell you something.  If a faction ability is chosen over drawing command cards consistently over many turns it's obviously too strong.

Thank goodness it's too strong because I went 2-3 with Umenzi that weekend.  If it wasn't too strong I would have gone 0-5  ;)
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
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RushAss

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2016, 11:52:48 PM »
Apologies for taking so long to get these up.  The pics from the Saturday night big game and from Sunday are forthcoming.  These are from the Saturday campaign.

Friday we had some one on one games and I ran a demo for an 8 and 7 year old.  The father left to play another game so I basically babysat his kids for him for 2 hours.  However, he had played the game with them before and they where about as interested as you would expect kids that age to be.  Throughout the weekend they kept on coming up to our tables to watch the action and ask us questions about the games in progress.  While it seemed mildly annoying at the time, I think this was a major league victory.  We also had a big game at night but I’ll be damned if I remember much of what happened other than the fact that I played Dwarves and didn’t route much.  Because… Dwarves!

Again, thanks to Eric for running the Saturday and Sunday Battleground event.
I'll give a quick summary of each round along with the pictures below.  Eric - feel free to elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong here.

The gist of it is that there was a war between Hawkshold and the Monsters & Mercs.  Each player was on one side or the other.  In addition to every scenario, each player would get a Leader unit.  This started off as a generic A: (5) 5/5 D: 2/2 C: 13 4G/3Y/2R unit that clocks in at approximately 200 points.  Upon meeting certain conditions at the end of each game, the leader unit would get experience points and you could spend experience points to upgrade your unit.  For the record, my unit was fearless by the end of the campaign.  I just wanted a dude that would never break - LOL.  The leader unit could be destroyed in a game but you would still get it for the next.  Anyways, this unit would NOT count against your points available for army build though it's value (as the campaign went on) could increase and the difference between your leader unit and your opponent's leader unit could count against who moved first.  Now most of the games where at a 1500-1750 point budget with 3 CAs, so many of those situations lead to us controlling a nearly 2000 point army build but we'd only have 3 CAs per turn.  This was important.

I was going to play Wuxing but when I found out Jaime was playing Wuxing I had somebody roll a die to determine my faction.  I wound up with Umenzi, which was fine by me.



This is game 1 vs. Brook (Ravenwood).  1750 points per side IIRC.  3 CAs per turn.  There is a cave to the right off of the map with a terrain objective in it.  Guarding the cave is a Hill Giant.  If a player crosses a bridge the Hill Giant comes out to play.  The tricky part is that we wheren't told about the giant until after army selection.  Brook and I both looked at the Giant and said "F*ck that!" so we let it alone.  Eric told us later that there is a way to point the Giant at your enemy but neither of us figured it out at the time. 
Brook basically lost this game because of some really bad failed courage checks.

Yes Corey, that’s a classic Umenzi Beef Wedge!



We got to meet Ostegun for the first time and it was a pleasure to have him with us.  Here he is playing Jaime in the Giant scenario.  I don't know who won but I'm guessing it was Jaime who was playing Wuxing.  Ostegun was playing High Elves.



Game 2 vs. Jaime (Wuxing).  In this scenario, there was a battle in progress and each player got 1000 points (plus Leader unit) to reinforce the side they where on.  Yeah, the Elephant was half of my force.  We got 2 CAs per turn for our army and 2 CAs per turn for the Hawk/Merc army.  We'd roll attacks for our entire side but the Hawk/Merc CAs could only be used to mark off faction abilities or to rally units and send them back into the fray.  You also couldn't play cards on them.  Jaime won this game though I'm not sure how.  I think I failed more courage checks than he did but it was weird because it was all Monster & Merc units failing the checks.



Eric doing his thang!



Prior to the Convention, Jaime asked me what was Rob Franke’s favorite beer.  He wanted to get a 6 pack of it so we all could do a toast to Rob, who passed away earlier this year.  Jaime was unable to find it but Ron saved the day when he arrived with Rob’s beloved Narragansett Lager – The Beer of the Clam.  We all had a toast.  Here’s to you Rob!



Brook and Ostegun playing the 3rd scenario which I’ll briefly describe below in my game against Eric.



The square piece of terrain you see in the center of the map is a barn.  Controlling the barn at the end of the scenario got you points.  We had 1500 points for our armies plus the leadership unit plus 500 points for allied troops.  Eric won this in an extremely close game.  We had some statistical weirdness in the center.  We had 2 Orc Swordsmen vs. Umenzi Berserker fights where the Berserker units both started out slowly and soon found themselves at 1 hit box.  Then the Orcs just stopped doing damage.  At the same time, I had a unit of Worthy getting housed by Hawk Swordsmen.  This isn’t too outrageous until you factor in the fact that I also had Atlatlmen firing exclusively on said Swordsmen at the same time.  And the Worthy where STILL losing.  So this was the dialogue at our table:

Attacks start for the turn:
Eric – “How are those Berserkers still alive?!?!  This is bullsh*t!”
Me – “How can the Worthy possibly be losing this fight?  This is bullsh*t!”
Both of us stare at each other.  Laughter ensues.
Start next turn…



Game was against Steve’s Dark Elves.  Another interesting scenario from the twisted vista of Eric’s mind.  This scenario simulated the flank of a much larger battle happening to the right of the map.  The Hawks/Mercs to the right represented the flank of a much larger force participating in a battle off map.  Our objective was to fight our way through to the flank and have our faction units (NOT Hawks or M&M) exit off of that side of the map.  Exiting that side of the map simulated the unit joining in with the main battle.  Whichever player got 2 units off of the map this way first would win.  I plopped Mumakil and a Unit of Chosen close to the place they needed to be and that’s all you need to know about who won this game
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
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RushAss

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2016, 09:26:02 PM »
Saturday Night

We played a 3000 point per side game Saturday night that was unconnected to the campaign.  It was late so we where having fun.  We started at like 11:30.  Ridiculous.



Brook (High Elves) and Ostegun (Lizardmen) plan their attack.



Brook announces his intentions.



My two team mates – Eric and Samuel Adams Octoberfest.  As you can tell, everybody else in the upstairs area was gone by this point.  We where hard core!



Here’s the disposition of the forces themselves.  I was playing Monsters & Mercs while Eric played Wuxing.  Yes, the fiery bird unit you see on the right is a Phoenix that Eric made up to test out some flying rules changes.  It clocked in at 350 points with a 1/3 defense and a (4) 6/6 attack.  I don’t remember much else about it.  You’d have to ask Eric.  We lost this game but it was a ton of fun.  IIRC the Hydra had a lame charge turn and then wound up getting pinched because it couldn’t fight a Battle Squad off soon enough.  The Triceratops Herd routed when it got pinched but reformed and then plowed my Horse Archers, which was sort of funny.  At least I thought it was funny.  Why are you looking at me like that?....

Sunday



Game 1 against Jaime’s Wuxing again.  1750 points plus leader units.  No Hawks or Mercenary units in this one.  This scenario was “kill the leader unit”.  It would be a straight up brawl and you would get 400 points if you killed your opponent’s leader unit.  Jaime’s leader unit is the one with the markings on it near the center of his line.  He had installed upgrades to make it a spear unit and give it a 6/6 attack profile.  My leader unit is all the way to the right with the C4 standing order.  My upgrade was that the unit was fearless, so it would never fail a route check.  For the record, I arranged it so that The War Elephant would trundle towards Jaime’s leader unit.  So what if it was a (6) 6/6 spear unit?  It still had a 2/2 defense and a total of 9 hit boxes so I figured I’d take the extra pain and just crush the sucker.



Well that didn’t exactly work out as planned.  I had a Devotion of Fuy that I played on the Elephant and since it was next to a unit with leadership (Worthy) it’s engaged attack would be a (6) 6/9 + 2 impact hits for the turn.  Now you could use your faction ability on your leader unit, so Jaime used Manipulate Chi on the leader to give it an effective 3/2 defense against all attacks that turn.  Jaime also played a Wuxing card that effectively was a Parry.  Still, I felt good about doing 4 damage here.  All I needed where 2 hits and the to-damage roll was a double overkill with the 2 impact hits.  Plus I had the javelin attacks.  So naturally the Javelins whiff and I only get 1 hit on the first roll, so I get a sad 3 damage.  No check.  Fine, I automatically do a point of damage on the next turn and we’ll have a check there.  But Jaime played No Calamity Feared, so much for a check on the following turn.  And The Elephant pretty much only did a point per turn from then.  Just to add to the pain the leaser unit passed it's Terror check so the Elephant took 4 damage in return.  Just smarmy. 

There was a turn where I had used all 3 of my command actions and I realized that a direct control that Jaime used on the previous turn would lead to the Elephant getting pinched.  I literally realized this as I drew my card for the turn (I had also used 2 direct controls).  Remember when I pointed out previously that it was significant that we’d essentially be controlling 2000 point armies with only 3 CAs per turn?  This is where it came home to roost for me.  On that turn I had to roll two courage checks for 2 Warrior Units.  One passed and 1 failed, then failed the red check after free attacks.  No biggie, it happens.  Then the Worthy next to the Elephant got pinched due to the absence of the Warriors.  Pre combat courage… fail.  Free attacks put it into the yellow.  Yeah… we’ll fail that check too.  Next turn a Worthy got twos companied by Terracotta Crossbowmen + Spearmen and went into the yellow.  Courage check failed.  Then the Elephant had to pass a courage check.  Fail.  After blowing 6 out of 7 rolled courage checks (half of those at 12 or 13) I was done.  Kudos to Jaime for playing a solid game but holy screaming turdballs do I hate losing like that.



Just we're clear how I felt about my units.  Another kick in the crotch was that I played a total of 5 games all weekend with the Umenzi and NEVER drew a Devotion of Courage card.  Not one.  Sheesh.



Game 5 Brook vs. Ostegun pt. 2.  I *think* Ostegun won this but I was too busy carping about my crummy courage to know for sure.

We played another 2 on 2 game at 4000 points per side but I was to fried to take pics.  Jaime (Alexander) teamed up with Ostegun (Lizards again) against Brook (Hawkshold) and I (High Elves).  I guess you could say our opponents “won” because there was a Raptor Pack remaining at the end of the game with a single red hit box.  Brook had to take over at the end because I had to get up and conduct some sales business.  And that business went… well  ;D
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
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NegativeZer0

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2016, 09:25:27 AM »
We called that sat night game early (get it because it was like 2am, early) and decided on a tie as i still had a full health phoenix and 3 other units (1 hurt 2 almost full) vs Brook had 2 line units still healthy and 2 archers.  You still had on decent unit albiet on comp the wrong side of the board.  So ya the game still had many turns to go and we decided on a draw.

Also please respond to the questions I asked.  And be honest if you have anything negative i want to hear that too.
Quote from: Chad_YMG
Cards are definitely good to have, but I like punching my opponent in the face, too!

Kevin

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2016, 01:19:56 PM »
Overall it looks very cool.  Thanks Marcus for the photos!

That game with the Hill Giant in the cave--who in their right mind would fight 500 points of extra enemy unit when an equal-size army is coming their way?  ???  Was there anything to gain or was this a very simple "idiot test?"
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. - Winston Churchill

gornhorror

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2016, 03:24:21 PM »


Quote
Game 5 Brook vs. Ostegun pt. 2.  I *think* Ostegun won this but I was too busy carping about my crummy courage to know for sure.

We played another 2 on 2 game at 4000 points per side but I was to fried to take pics.  Jaime (Alexander) teamed up with Ostegun (Lizards again) against Brook (Hawkshold) and I (High Elves).  I guess you could say our opponents “won” because there was a Raptor Pack remaining at the end of the game with a single red hit box.  Brook had to take over at the end because I had to get up and conduct some sales business.  And that business went… well  ;D
Quote

The game in this picture I won pretty quickly.  The game that Ostegun won was the scenario with the Barn.  We ended up adding up the points and he won by less than 20 POINTS!!!!!  The barn saved him.  My archers were devastating this game but I couldn't shoot into the barn and was unclear about the rules about "BEING IN THE BARN".  Bascially I thought my units were safe from attacks because I entered the barn directly by expending a few command actions by lining them up.  I was wrong.  My units got attacked and it allowed his unit to survive and it got him the 200 points(400 points?) that he needed to win the game.  

This being said, I had a great time playing against Ostegun, he's a great guy and I look forward to playing against him the future.

One thing though,  He's got to get dice that are more easily read.  His dice had a wicked color with cool pictures but you had to study them for a minute to figure out what he rolled.  Kinda like those heavy metal dice that Eric has.


[/quote]
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 03:28:40 PM by gornhorror »
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RushAss

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Re: Council of Five Nations XXXIX September 23-25, 2016
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2016, 08:41:25 PM »
So looking for specific feedback

Commanders:
Would you want to use the commander idea again?
Did you like the way to gain exp?
Were the upgrades too cheap/expensive?
I thought it was pretty cool.  I did enjoy the upgrade system.  I don't have a precise handle on if the upgrades where too cheap or expensive, but they felt pretty much in line at first inspection.  Overall I'd call this concept a success.

Phoenix:
No one used it.  Why?
Too expensive?
Too much else going on?
Didn't you have to make it into the cave in the first scenario to earn the Pheonix upgrade?  I know you had to do something and I never achieved it and that's why I never used it.  I very well would have used it if I had access to it.  Especially in that second scenario.

Points / Command actions
So it was not unintentional that armies were bigger vs how many command actions you got
Ex 1750 + Commander is nearly 2000 points but only 3 command actions.  Was the lower command actions and by extension lower card draw better or worse than just a normal 2000 point build.  Im really leaning towards 1750 and 2250 being the better points cost for standard games (vs 1500/2000)
I can't speak for others, but I always find it challenging whenever I have fewer CAs to use than I should based upon the size of the army I'm controlling.  It can be annoying, but over all I think it's a good thing.  It really had an effect on my 5th game where I simply forgot that I only had 3 CAs a turn and that led to my GWE getting pinched.  It also had an effect in the first game where I only drew a single card the entire game because I was using Faith Armor so liberally.

The merc forces
Was this fun or would you just prefer your normal army?
While it was important for this campaign to add some theme I am curious to know if it was liked or not.
I thought it was fun but I certainly believe it could use some tweaking.  The second game is the biggest example of this.  Each side had nearly 2000 points of Hawk/Merc units per side and only 1000 points of their faction units, making the faction units seem to be only coincidental.  Plus we where cramming about 3000 points per side on the map and most of the faction units essentially where placed on the flanks.  But over all it added a nice element to the games.  Thumbs up!
"Art as expression, not as market campaigns
Will still capture our imaginations"
-Rush, Natural Science