My totally crazy houserule ideas

[Zelc]

I've been brainstorming some thoughts about changes I'd like to see tried a few times. They are radical and they're definitely outside the Overton Window, so I fully expect some ridicule, but bring it on! I think there are good reasons for each of these changes, and I doubt any of these would break the game. That said, these ideas have not been tested or even through through that much, so it's entirely possible I missed something.

Ready to have your mind blown (at how crazy I am)? Read on!


1. Command Cards purchased -> 20 points (or lower)

I know the game designers priced Command Cards at a punitive cost to encourage buying actual units. Unfortunately, the way it works out is it functionally limits the number of possible 2000 point army combinations each faction has. There are many ways to put 7-10 units together. There are many fewer ways to do that and get to 1985-2000 points. How many times have you built a list with the units you want, only to scrap it because you have 60 points left over, don't have a unit to upgrade, and don't want to be down the equivalent of 20-30 points of strength on your opponent? It also creates hidden power in factions, where some factions have more lists that fill out the 2000 points.

There are benefits to having more Command Cards, specifically increasing the chance of getting the ones you really need. On the other hand, you'll usually have a good hand of Command Cards by the time the lines meet, so extra Command Cards often only provide their benefit during later turns. I know people have taken high CC builds before, but that alone does not prove the cost is correct. I'm pretty sure the true value of a command card is closer to 20 points than 25. A cost reduction for Command Cards would increase the number of good army builds each faction has and would improve options during army construction.

Some of you may say 20 points is close enough to 25, and you may be right. We might have to drop the cost of Command Cards even lower (maybe 18?) to get the benefits.


2. Hawkshold Bravery -> +4 Courage +3 on fear checks & erase pre-roll to auto-pass Courage check, M&M Spoils -> mark 2 boxes per CA or 15 points spent

This is probably going to be one of the craziest ideas on this list of crazy ideas. By my calculations, a pre-emptive stays-until-used +3 Courage boost has a 49% chance of helping a Courage 12 unit turn a failed Courage check into a successful Courage check (assuming 1 yellow and 1 red check). That compares to 56% for Loyalty and 74% for Cold-Blooded. So what's the problem? First, earlier Rout checks are worth more than later ones, so the value of potentially helping the red check is smaller.

Second and most importantly, courage bailouts you have to mark during YOUR Movement and Command phase are much, much worse than ones you play during the Courage phase. All it takes is for one enemy unit to unexpectedly roll high on your turn, and then your opponent can force an unaided check by playing their Command Cards there next turn. Marking Bravery on enough of your units to counteract this is cost-prohibitive. Not only does it cost a lot of CAs, it also shows your hand. Usually, a large hand deters your opponent from playing red Command Cards out of fear of being trumped. Mark enough Bravery, and your opponent can play red cards without fear.

Finally, let's say you correctly predict which of your units will need to make Rout checks. Hey, that's not easy, and the payoff feels great! Oh, but then your normal units still have a ~10% chance of failing their check with the bonus. Even if you play it perfectly, you'll see your units with Bravery fail their yellow check roughly every 2 or 3 games. I know this can happen with other Courage bailouts, but it feels much worse with Bravery because the setup is much more difficult.

Hawkshold puts me in the uncomfortable position where I never feel good marking Bravery, but the alternative is to basically play a faction without any Courage bailouts. Bumping the bonus up to +4 halves the chance of it failing even when you made the correct prediction and goes a long way to making Bravery not feel like a negative value play I have to make.

For Spoils, it's the largely the same argument. They have a stellar Courage bailout in Ordered Retreat, but the faction is worse overall and it could use the boost.

EDIT: Bravery probably plays better as a pre-roll auto-pass for both players.


3. Orc Lash -> also gives +3 +2 Courage until your next turn if used on an Engaged unit

Orcs have a problem: their cheapest line unit is a) skewed towards offense, b) has a 50/50 shot of failing their yellow check, c) only has 9 boxes and 2 yellow boxes, and d) their cheaper backup unit is auto-close and can't reliably be counted on to back up 2 units. That means unless you want a glaring weak point in the line, the average cost of the Orc line is above 200 points, which severely limits their army builds.

Lash adding Courage for 2 turns makes Goblins more usable. Even at +3, it's really only worth it on units which will be making 2 checks in those 2 turns. This change also helps Trolls not rout through their 7 red boxes. This change would increase the flexibility of Orc army builds.

EDIT1: Changed to +2. It'd still probably be worthwhile at +2, but I'm certain it's not too good. Note this only kicks in if used on an Engaged unit.


4. Dwarf Sprint -> 1 CA sprints 2 Dwarves and ignores additional +1 MC if suffering from terrain movement penalties, remove the Sprint over 2 turns thing

Dwarves need something so they can somewhat answer Stand and Shoot with terrain, and the current implementation is not it. A better solution would decrease the cost of sprinting more Dwarves while also reducing terrain penalties.


5. Carthage Spanish Cavalry and Carthage Gallic Cavalry get +1 dice while not Charging

This is probably the second-most radical item on this list. Corey tells me these two units as well as Rome's Veteran Equites are overcosted by 10-20 points each due to typos during their development. This makes all of them ~5% overcosted, which is pretty bad. More importantly, these are medium-ish Cavalry with really bad offense. While usually +1 stat compares favorably to +2 dice, medium Cavalry needs to go after cheaper units which often have worse defensive stats, or participate in flanks. Both give dice more value than stats and it means they're even less effective than their points suggest.

While Rome has other options, these are Carthage's only offensive Cavalry units. Carthage (and especially their Numidian Cavalry) has also been nerfed repeatedly by rule changes in the past and could use some help. I'm not a fan of recosting units because that opens up a nasty slippery slope. A bonus of either +1 dice while not Charging or +2 dice while Charging would bring these units up to par. I prefer the first option so they're not as front-loaded, but either option should do the trick.


6. Hawkshold Pikemen -> D+1/+0 bonus changed to while Holding against Engaged attacks.

I'm pretty sure most people have looked at the Hawkshold Pikemen and found it wanting. Compared to a Swordsman, it gets +2 dice while not Charging at the cost of 2.5" MC and D-1/-0 against most things. That's almost certainly overcosted. Expanding the scope of its D+1/+0 bonus is both flavorful (long-ranged weapons deter enemy melee attacks) and gets them in line mechanically.


7. Lizardmen Blood Frenzy -> triggers if your unit or engaged enemy units began the turn in the yellow or red.

Lizardmen have an awkward problem where their cheap units are tilted towards offense and their expensive units are tilted towards defense. Worse, their cheap units are charged for Blood Frenzy and usually never trigger it. This change is a small buff to Blood Frenzy for cheap units at the cost of a tiny nerf to Blood Frenzy for medium/expensive units, which helps bring the cheap Lizardmen units up to par.


EDIT:
8. Cost to Direct Control units which can't be Direct Controlled -> All your CAs, or remove this option.

There's a significant discount to Auto-Close. Being able to Direct Control them and still have 1 CA left over is a no-brainer in many situations. Forcing it to cost all your CAs or removing this option makes Auto-Close a much harsher penalty.


Some less crazy stuff:

a. Some fix for shooting

This actually has a bunch of parts: a buff to close-range shooting, a nerf to long-range shooting (an overall buff to closing archers and no significant buff to stand and shoot), a nerf to focus fire, and changing move and shoot to only trigger on maneuvers. Viable archers would greatly expand the number of viable army builds and would breathe some new life into old factions. The problem is I'm not quite sure how best to implement this.


b. High Elves Precision -> doesn't count as a Command Card, Oathbound -> something reactive

Precision is the worst faction ability in the game. Yes, Sprint is their true faction ability (they pay for Maneuver Mastery), but let's at least give Precision a situational use.

As the faction least-equipped to deal with random Courage check failures, it really should have a reactive Courage card. I know Brook is testing a reroll +2 with 1 red damage. I prefer 1 damage with autopass while in the green/yellow, and flat reroll in the red. 1 damage is a big deal on High Elves and it lets opponents look forward to a red check much sooner. 1 red damage only matters if the unit is killed.


c. Trolls -> first red box is a yellow box

I don't think Trolls are overcosted that much. Compared with Ancients and their 1/4 defense, a 1/3 defense is 1.11 to 1.38 more damage per 2 turns, and -1 for regeneration (I assume 1 green and 1 red box cancels with Blood Frenzy). A small buff to Trolls would bring them up to par.

[gornhorror]

Just to be clear my idea for Oathbound marks a red box starting from the right.  So, the red check doesn't come any sooner.  You just die quicker once in the red.  I think that's a fair trade if it means I most likely will pass my yellow check at a 14.

I totally agree with you on precision.  The ability is not great on it's own and the fact that it counts as a command card makes it even worse.  Basically you will almost never choose it over a command card.  

My third idea if the above two are ever adopted is to leave the prices of the units as is.  Who cares if the units are expensive if they are worth it.

I agree that Bravery needs to be improved.  I didn't always think that but I've played Hawkshold quite a few times lately and feel it's lacking.  Perhaps +4 courage will help.  How about this for size.  What if when you give a unit bravery any units that are within 3.5" get another +1 courage.  That way you're helping other units if they are adjacent with just one command action.

I agree with you on spoils.  Being able to check two spoils boxes with one command action is just what the doctor ordered.  The reason why I think that is if you have any of the cool units (EE, Dragon, hydra, etc) command cards are at a premium.  You might be able to draw a few extra this way.

Lash seems just fine as is.  It's a great ability.  If anything, I wouldn't go any higher than +1 courage.  Goblins are supposed to do damage and die horribly.  Failed rout checks or not.

When the Trolls drop to a 11 courage and 3 hit dice they severely suck. The yellow box would help that.  I'd be willing to try it.   Here are some of my ideas for the trolls:

1. Give them 6 hit dice (each troll has 3)
2. They regenerate two damage on the owning players turn if they are in the green, or one if they are in the red.
3. Take away 2 red boxes and make them green.

I'm not really sure what the answer is with command cards and how they should be priced.  How about if you started the game with one command card per 500 army points rounding down. Just an idea.

I'm not really sure how you fix move and shoot without buffing stand and shoot.  It's a real tough one. 

[Zelc]

Just to be clear my idea for Oathbound marks a red box starting from the right.  So, the red check doesn't come any sooner.  You just die quicker once in the red.  I think that's a fair trade if it means I most likely will pass my yellow check at a 14.

I think that's a totally reasonable card. I think it might play better for both players as an auto-pass with a normal damage, but I haven't tested it (straight re-roll in the red instead to distinguish it from IKYM).

I agree that Bravery needs to be improved.  I didn't always think that but I've played Hawkshold quite a few times lately and feel it's lacking.  Perhaps +4 courage will help.  How about this for size.  What if when you give a unit bravery any units that are within 3.5" get another +1 courage.  That way you're helping other units if they are adjacent with just one command action.

It helps with the surprise Courage checks problem. Might require some strategic deployments to get the full effect, which may be cool or may be annoying.

I'm not really sure what the answer is with command cards and how they should be priced.  How about if you started the game with one command card per 500 army points rounding down. Just an idea.

The goal is to increase the number of viable army builds. While your proposal may be worth considering, it doesn't achieve my goal.

[BubblePig]

My off the cuff reaction to these suggestions for house rules

1) Command Cards purchased -> 20 points (or lower)

Not a big fan of this one. I actually like the tension created by having the cards cost 25 points. Also this would be an indirect nerf for Carthage and factions which can purchase CA equivalent stuff at a discount.

2) Hawkshold Bravery -> +4 Courage, M&M Spoils -> mark 2 boxes per CA or 15 points spent

I am middle of the road on this. I don't think it breaks the game but 2 boxes might be a bit too good even for a faction which needs the help. Worth trying.

3) Orc Lash -> also gives +3 Courage until your next turn if used on an Engaged unit

With Brook on this. Lash giving +1 or maybe even +2 courage might be OK, but I think this is a really strong faction ability without the buff and IMO at +3 courage they are going to out dwarf the dwarves.

4) Dwarf Sprint -> 1 CA sprints 2 Dwarves and ignores terrain penalties, remove the Sprint over 2 turns thing

I like that this is an ability that no longer goes across more than one turn.

5) Carthage Spanish Cavalry and Carthage Gallic Cavalry get +1 dice while not Charging

They could use it, but I don't think I would take them anyhow.

6) Hawkshold Pikemen -> D+1/+0 bonus changed to while Holding against Engaged attacks.

Yeah, this unit needs help to come out of the box and it hasn't gotten much attention in that regard.

7) Lizardmen Blood Frenzy -> triggers if your unit or engaged enemy units began the turn in the yellow or red.

I like the math, but not sure it would be as good in practice as on paper. Worth trying.

[gornhorror]

I don't think the Dwarves need any help with the sprint ability.  Yeah, their movement is an issue, but it's like their only weakness.  The change to sprint that already occurred helps enough.

Hawks pikemen are bit weak with that defensive profile.  I think I could get behind some kind of buff for them, but nothing too much.

[RushAss]

1) Command Cards purchased -> 20 points (or lower)

I'm sort of ambivalent to this.  Many of us have come to the conclusion that a CC is usually not worth the 25 points that you spend on it but the fact that you can pull extra ones at the beginning of the game does have an unmeasured (if slight) advantage.  In my mind, I'd charge 25 points for the first card and then 20 for each additional card.  That seems fair to me, but now we're adding more complexity to the game and I feel we should be working the other way.  Then again this is a house rule, so in that regard I think it's cool.

2) Hawkshold Bravery -> +4 Courage, M&M Spoils -> mark 2 boxes per CA or 15 points spent

You make a strong argument about Bravery.  I'll counter with this - Bravery can potentially save a unit from multiple failed courage checks over multiple turns.  No command card can do that.  And remember that faction abilities are supposed to be a tad bit worse than your average command card.  Or at least not as good as the faction specific cards.  There are times when I feel Bravery is great and times where I feel that a slight bump may help.  My thought was that you just get rid of the part where the unit loses the Bravery if the succeed a check that would have failed without it.  I always thought that was kind of silly.

3) Orc Lash -> also gives +3 Courage until your next turn if used on an Engaged unit

OK, I think this one is just batshit crazy.  Kevin has a Championship rule where Lash will give +2 courage to previously engaged units for the turn it's activated.  I think that is strong but still within the boundaries of balance.  Giving a unit +3 courage for 2 combat turns makes it like the best faction ability ever.  Think of it this way - a command card that gives a unit (+1) +0/+0 and +3 courage for the turn that must be played in the movement and command phase is sort of "meh".  But if you get +3 courage over 2 turns it becomes outstanding.  And you can draw the card by choice EVERY TIME.  And more than once a turn for multiple units if needs be!

The Spoils thing.... not so crazy.  I could live with it.

4) Dwarf Sprint -> 1 CA sprints 2 Dwarves and ignores terrain penalties, remove the Sprint over 2 turns thing

I see your thinking here.  In 1 regard it's an upgrade and in another regard it's a downgrade.  I like the change but I think that ignoring terrain penalties is too much.  I see Dwarves sprinting through a river at 3.5" and my brain starts to hurt.

5) Carthage Spanish Cavalry and Carthage Gallic Cavalry get +1 dice while not Charging

I'm indifferent to this.  I don't play Carthage much so any thoughts I have on it are not backed up by a lot of weight anyways.

6) Hawkshold Pikemen -> D+1/+0 bonus changed to while Holding against Engaged attacks.

Even better, just make it D+1/+0 on the charge turn only and keep the D+1/+0 vs. Large or Cavlary.  But don't make those bonuses stackable otherwise they would be a 3/2 on the charge turn vs. Large/Cav and that's a bit too hot.

7) Lizardmen Blood Frenzy -> triggers if your unit or engaged enemy units began the turn in the yellow or red.

Hmmmmmm..... not sure what to make of this.  Zelc sucks 

a) Some fix for shooting

Yeah, we've all been having massive discussions on this.  Ideally, a small nudge is all it needs.  I'm not to sure if it's possible to give it that nudge without an unwieldy reworking of the rules.  God how I'd love for it to be a simple fix!

b) High Elves Precision -> doesn't count as a Command Card, Oathbound -> something reactive

I like this and Brook and I have been doing the Precision thing in friendly games for almost 2 years now.  Oathbound is a bit trickier but still deserves a look.

[Hannibal]

1) Command Cards purchased -> 20 points (or lower)

I'm sort of ambivalent to this. 

What Marcus said.

2) Hawkshold Bravery -> +4 Courage, M&M Spoils -> mark 2 boxes per CA or 15 points spent

You make a strong argument about Bravery.  I'll counter with this - Bravery can potentially save a unit from multiple failed courage checks over multiple turns.  No command card can do that.  And remember that faction abilities are supposed to be a tad bit worse than your average command card.  Or at least not as good as the faction specific cards.  There are times when I feel Bravery is great and times where I feel that a slight bump may help.  My thought was that you just get rid of the part where the unit loses the Bravery if the succeed a check that would have failed without it.  I always thought that was kind of silly.

I'm fine with Bravery as is.  Yeah, in a perfect world I agree with Marcus's comment but the issue doesn't rise the level that I think would justify an errata.  As a house rule it would be fine.

3) Orc Lash -> also gives +3 Courage until your next turn if used on an Engaged unit

OK, I think this one is just batshit crazy. 

What Marcus said, and beyond:  I think that any boost to lash is guano crazy.  Bottom line, folks:  Battleground has some swingy mechanics that are central to the game.  If you can't live with that, then play some other game.

The Spoils thing.... not so crazy.  I could live with it.

I've had that exact proposal for some time now.  Spoils is a case where the faction ability is holistically weaker than it would be if it were on another faction.  I'd actually phrase the rules as "Spend 1 CA to mark all the Spoils boxes on one unit."

4) Dwarf Sprint -> 1 CA sprints 2 Dwarves and ignores terrain penalties, remove the Sprint over 2 turns thing

I see your thinking here.  In 1 regard it's an upgrade and in another regard it's a downgrade.  I like the change but I think that ignoring terrain penalties is too much.  I see Dwarves sprinting through a river at 3.5" and my brain starts to hurt.

When the errata to (Dwarven) Sprint was codified, I went on record as saying that you're exchanging one problem (mobility) for another (Command Cards).  And doing so in a very clunky way.

If I had my druthers, I'd replace Sprint with Forced March:  spend a CA to mark the Forced March box on a unit.  While the box is marked, the unit gains +1 MC whenever it would suffer an MC penalty from terrain and/or maneuvers.  You may erase the box before the unit moves to make its MC 3.5" this turn.

This would give Dwarves a little more mobility to stomp through forests for multiple turns and do things like shift sideways and whatnot.

5) Carthage Spanish Cavalry and Carthage Gallic Cavalry get +1 dice while not Charging

I'm indifferent to this.  I don't play Carthage much so any thoughts I have on it are not backed up by a lot of weight anyways.

Normally I'm not a fan of recosting, but this is what I'd do here.  Rather than introduce a complex rule, just lower the cost accordingly:

Vet Equites:  189 pts
Spanish Cav:  165 pts
Gallic Cav:  202 pts

I could live with the Roman cav being incorrectly costed (although they are the most off base), but making Spanish & Gallic cav swarms viable would really liven up what is a pretty one-note faction.  This is one that I would champion with the Rules team if there weren't bigger issues to deal with.

6) Hawkshold Pikemen -> D+1/+0 bonus changed to while Holding against Engaged attacks.

Even better, just make it D+1/+0 on the charge turn only and keep the D+1/+0 vs. Large or Cavlary.  But don't make those bonuses stackable otherwise they would be a 3/2 on the charge turn vs. Large/Cav and that's a bit too hot.

I'm at a loss what to do here. 

7) Lizardmen Blood Frenzy -> triggers if your unit or engaged enemy units began the turn in the yellow or red.

Hmmmmmm..... not sure what to make of this.  Zelc sucks 

Not saying I 100% disagree, but I'd have to look closely at this one and play a few games.  Certainly I've never felt that Blood Frenzy was what hurt this faction.  And with the dice charge, I've been pretty impressed with it.  Yeah it's kind of a hard faction to use, but that doesn't bother me.  I like factions that work different as long as there's some viable builds in there.

a) Some fix for shooting

Yeah, we've all been having massive discussions on this.  Ideally, a small nudge is all it needs.  I'm not to sure if it's possible to give it that nudge without an unwieldy reworking of the rules.  God how I'd love for it to be a simple fix!

I think we have one, Marcus...

b) High Elves Precision -> doesn't count as a Command Card, Oathbound -> something reactive

I like this and Brook and I have been doing the Precision thing in friendly games for almost 2 years now.  Oathbound is a bit trickier but still deserves a look.

Cruising right past the Oathbound ideas . . . I like the Precision change.  Not sure it rises to the level that it needs an errata, but I think its the more balanced. 

[Zelc]

You make a strong argument about Bravery.  I'll counter with this - Bravery can potentially save a unit from multiple failed courage checks over multiple turns.  No command card can do that.  And remember that faction abilities are supposed to be a tad bit worse than your average command card.  Or at least not as good as the faction specific cards.  There are times when I feel Bravery is great and times where I feel that a slight bump may help.  My thought was that you just get rid of the part where the unit loses the Bravery if the succeed a check that would have failed without it.  I always thought that was kind of silly.

Bravery as written cannot save a unit from multiple failed checks.

Thinking about it some more, I think it'd play better as a pre-roll auto-pass Courage effect. I made the edit.

OK, I think this one is just batshit crazy.  Kevin has a Championship rule where Lash will give +2 courage to previously engaged units for the turn it's activated.  I think that is strong but still within the boundaries of balance.  Giving a unit +3 courage for 2 combat turns makes it like the best faction ability ever.  Think of it this way - a command card that gives a unit (+1) +0/+0 and +3 courage for the turn that must be played in the movement and command phase is sort of "meh".  But if you get +3 courage over 2 turns it becomes outstanding.  And you can draw the card by choice EVERY TIME.  And more than once a turn for multiple units if needs be!

Well, I'm not sure it's that crazy. +3 Courage makes it bad Bravery, since it only lasts 2 turns. Note you only get the +3 Courage if your unit was already engaged, so it does not benefit from the +MC. It also will not help your unit which will be charged on your opponent's turn.

That said, I've reduced it down to +2 Courage for 2 turns. Keep in mind it's a courage boost you have to play pre-combat. I think the only comparable card is Arrogant Spite, which has a huge additional effect. Basically it trades +1 dice and +2 Courage on the second turn for 1 damage and the flexibility to play it on your opponent's turn.

4) Dwarf Sprint -> 1 CA sprints 2 Dwarves and ignores terrain penalties, remove the Sprint over 2 turns thing

I see your thinking here.  In 1 regard it's an upgrade and in another regard it's a downgrade.  I like the change but I think that ignoring terrain penalties is too much.  I see Dwarves sprinting through a river at 3.5" and my brain starts to hurt.

Maybe ignores 1 level of MC penalty? I'll make that change.

[Zelc]

If I had my druthers, I'd replace Sprint with Forced March:  spend a CA to mark the Forced March box on a unit.  While the box is marked, the unit gains +1 MC whenever it would suffer an MC penalty from terrain and/or maneuvers.  You may erase the box before the unit moves to make its MC 3.5" this turn.

I think that's a good idea. The only thing stopping me is not wanting to give Dwarves a second checkbox ability, but otherwise it's solid.

Normally I'm not a fan of recosting, but this is what I'd do here.  Rather than introduce a complex rule, just lower the cost accordingly:

Vet Equites:  189 pts
Spanish Cav:  165 pts
Gallic Cav:  202 pts

I've changed my mind on recosting several times in the past. Right now, I think recosting opens up a slippery slope I do not want to touch. At that point, I'd want to recost every unit with indirect fire, and then we might recost some other units which have "typos", and then recost units which are too good, etc.

a) Some fix for shooting

Yeah, we've all been having massive discussions on this.  Ideally, a small nudge is all it needs.  I'm not to sure if it's possible to give it that nudge without an unwieldy reworking of the rules.  God how I'd love for it to be a simple fix!

I think we have one, Marcus...

We still need to nail down the specifics, but I find it encouraging that there's a general consensus on the overall structure of changes needed. I'd prefer we run a couple more tests with the stuff we have right now and then run a couple of tests with another version.