Author Topic: Alternate Ranged Idea  (Read 7973 times)

gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2016, 03:55:23 PM »
What if we allowed ranged units on move and shoot to fire every turn with a -1/-0 and ranged units on just ranged(i.e. not moving) to only fire on their turn without penalty.

This I think helps moving and shooting without making stand and shooting more powerful. 

Just another thought.

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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2016, 07:29:58 AM »
So this is a house rule that Marcus and I have been using for ranged.  It's simple and seems to work and most importantly is fun and not too clunky.


1.) No move and shoot penalty but a maneuver and shoot penalty(Units with no move and shoot penalty or units with no penalty for manuever(i.e. maneuver mastery) do not suffer this penalty)
2.) No ranged penalty for any range
3.) No bonus for firing at large units
4.) +1 dice if target is 3.5" or closer (addlatlmen do not get this bonus)
5.) (+0) -1/+0 if firing on anything but the closest target

Oh and this is with firing only on the owning players turn.  

Here's another idea that I have been thinking about and could be tried out in the near future.

(-1) dice when firing at large/colossal units to simulate their tough hide instead of +1 to hit.  I was also thinking about (+0)+0/-1.  This helps the 1/3 or 2/3 large units but makes the 1/4 to immune I think.










« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 07:41:48 AM by gornhorror »
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NegativeZer0

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2016, 10:49:42 AM »
I hate # 4.

The rest seems okay
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 02:05:38 PM by NegativeZer0 »
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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2016, 12:48:50 PM »
So here is an updated version that we've been playing with and it's seems work.

1.) No move and shoot penalty but a maneuver and shoot penalty(Units with no move and shoot penalty or units with no penalty for manuever(i.e. maneuver mastery) do not suffer this penalty)
2.) No ranged penalty for any range
3.) No bonus for firing at large units
4.) (+0) -1/+0 if firing on anything but the closest target

Oh and this is with firing only on the owning players turn.

We may revisit giving a bonus to firing when the target is closer than 3.5".  It seems that the new rules are strong enough without this change.

When we played last weekend at Time Warp, Ostegun suggested that ranged units could get the +1 bonus to hit dice if they were specifically on hold and within 3/5" to their targets.  This is something that could be tried in the future.

Looks like we are playing again this Saturday and we will be using these rules again.

 
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Ostegun

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2016, 08:24:51 AM »
Have to say I loved the new rules since they made the use of range units more appealing in a small sized battlefield like BFW and BHW does.

The idea of the bonus die was for 3.5" away as a way to cause the player to reflect on the option of having range moving or holding since holding would offer that bonus when units are close enough to charge them.
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Kevin

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2016, 09:05:36 AM »
From a game-stays-balanced-but-archers-become-better perspective it's definitely worth exploring.

From a "these-rules-simulate-battles" prespective (as opposed to "and if horse archers are attacked by fast-moving-spearmen the Giant Space Squid comes down from the heavens to do two point of damage to the spearmen in order to keep things balanced") not so much.  i'd be hard pressed to explain why archers can leg it forward top-speed with no penalty but shufflng a few feet to the right doesn't work.  Or why it's no harder to hit a far-away target when ever kid who's been to summer camp has had a harder time hitting  a farther target with an arrow.   Or for that matter why it's suddenly harder to shoot at the guys over there on the left when there are some slightly closer guys over there on the right.

(No bonus for shooting at Large, on the other hand, strikes me as reasonable.  I figure Large units being bigger targets already is accounted for by their typical 1/x defense.)

But back to the rules.  Have you tried placing an archer unit directly behind another?  With no range penalty it seems that would get you the same brutal concentration of fire that the fourth rule was trying to prevent.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 09:15:46 AM by Kevin »
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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2016, 07:24:15 PM »
Here is a new version of my ranged rules.  Some changes were made after my discussion with Marcus last night.


1. (+0) -1/+0 at extreme range
2. (+0) -1/+0 the turn your target changes (whether you are assigning a new target or taking direct control and changing the target for the turn)  
3. (+0) -1/+0 when moving and shooting unless you are moving one movement class slower than your top speed
4. No bonus for firing on large/colossal units.  

( The # 4 rule is currently being discussed in my playing group, I would like it to become official but there are some who think it will make Large too powerful because of the discount for large units)


There is also talk of re-introducing an automatic (-1) die when being final rushed against Large/Colossal) in addition to rolling for a fear check which would give the additional -1/-1 if failed.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 12:32:11 PM by gornhorror »
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Ostegun

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2016, 07:26:14 PM »
Agree with Kevin on realism. Range should matter if we are looking at a realistic set of rules. If we want to keep it real I guess we need to look at a different approach to fixing range. An easy fix for me would be to increase how far units can shoot before saying it's long range. Maybe normal range up to 10 or 14. Long up to 16 or 18. Extreme beyond that...

I mean just a thought XD
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Ostegun

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2016, 07:27:48 PM »
Gornhorror that sounds really clever would love to try it.
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Kevin

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2016, 07:34:42 PM »
Quote
1. (+0) -1/+0 at extreme range
2. (+0) -1/+0 the turn you change your target with a command action
3. (+0) -1/+0 when moving and shooting unless you are moving one movement class slower than your top speed

Definitely looks better, but regarding #2 should the penalty also apply when taking Direct Control to shoot at a unit other than the normal target?
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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2016, 07:51:13 PM »
I would lean towards yes.  Make your ranged assignments count.
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Kevin

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2016, 08:05:53 PM »
Cool.

Is the bonus vs. Large still there or is it gone?  If it's there, big guys are going to get even more hurt by these rules than the status quo.
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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2016, 08:26:02 PM »
If it was only up to me, yes, I would take away the bonus for firing on large.  Sure, realistically it's easier to hit them but the arrows should do less damage.  That being said I don't see any buff to defensive toughness.  So I'm thinking taking away the bonus to hit can account for that in a round about way.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 10:18:56 AM by gornhorror »
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RushAss

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2016, 09:30:33 PM »

Definitely looks better, but regarding #2 should the penalty also apply when taking Direct Control to shoot at a unit other than the normal target?
Well taking direct control does require a command action, so yeah.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 10:37:56 PM by Kevin »
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gornhorror

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Re: Alternate Ranged Idea
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2016, 01:12:04 PM »
Looks like we will have another opportunity to play this coming weekend.  We will be employing the newest incarnation of the ranged rules.

Once again, they are as follows:


1. (+0) -1/+0 at extreme range
2. (+0) -1/+0 the turn you change your target (whether you are assigning a new target or taking direct control and changing the target for the turn)  
3. (+0) -1/+0 when moving and shooting unless you are moving one movement class slower than your top speed, this includes maneuvers (i.e. sideways, backwards, etc)
4. No bonus for firing on large/colossal units.  (I like this rule and will try to convince others to include it)



« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 01:27:24 PM by gornhorror »
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