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91
Faction Discussions / Re: Dark Elf Faction Review
« Last post by gornhorror on April 19, 2018, 01:23:58 PM »
These are some of the changes I would make to the Dark Elves:

Slavetakers are a harassment unit.  They shouldn't be slamming into the opponents units and coming away without a rout check.

This is what I would do:

Perhaps, allow them the scout health bar with one extra YELLOW box.  So they would be GG/YYY/RR
Take away the offensive cavalry bonus but keep the defensive bonus.  So they would be a (0) 0/0  +1/0 on the charge
Let them keep Pain Touch
Let them keep the 7" move.
Take away their core status.


Any unit that has fearsome, the opponent gets a (-1) 0/0 on the charge.  That's it.

Fix the lashmistress's ability somehow.....You know my solution. 

Either take away the spears on the slave warriors or take away their core status.

Also, somebody said give the Standard bearers an aura that helps with courage....that could work too, but it's not like Dark Elves need much help with courage....
92
House Rules, Unofficial Variants and Proposals / Re: On Dragon Fire
« Last post by RushAss on April 18, 2018, 10:49:41 AM »
I agree with Corey on this.  One thing you can try is to house rule it so that a flying dragon doesn't suffer a move and shoot penalty.  We've done that in the past and its a nice little upgrade without being off the charts good.
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House Rules, Unofficial Variants and Proposals / Re: On Dragon Fire
« Last post by Hannibal on April 17, 2018, 05:16:51 PM »
I was watching some Game of Thrones clips the other day, and they got me thinking. Dragon fire, as it exists in Battleground, kinda sucks. Think of Smaug or Drogon.

I'm leery of using movies or TV shows for game design, because they are trying to tell a story.  We are trying to create a balanced, tactical game.  And having something like Smaug or Drogon as portrayed is essentially an "I Win" button unless the other guy rolls three 1s in a row (in which case he kills the dragon with a shot to the weak spot and you lose).

Having an undefeatable monster makes for a good story, because it builds tension.  In a game the undefeatable monster is a really terrible design.


Quote
An Ancient Red Dragon, if it uses both its flame attacks on a unit with a 2/2 defense, will do about 8 damage, probably less do to Command Cards. Not that much considering its cost.

Hold on there.   ;D  You're taking the whole cost of the unit and applying that to the output of dragonfire.  The dragon does other things than just shoot fire.  That ranged attack costs ~100pts of the Ancient Red Dragon's total cost.  The formula postulates that each point of damage (on a D:2/2 unit) is worth 20pts.  So 8pts of damage has a value of 160pts, at a cost of 100pts.  Now the dragon was designed before my time, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's because they took into account things like A) the dragon will take the M&S penalty and B) the enemy will use Command Cards.


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A Red Dragon will do less, about 5-6 damage, again probably less do to Blue Cards.

Just for the record, the Red Dragon pays ~85pts for that damage, which is a ~100-120pt value.


I agree Dragons are difficult to use, but I think it has to do with the fact that they eat up so much of an army's points.  I believe we talked about this sort of thing in the past and the idea that was floated was to have a Dragon fill some of the Core slots of a faction.  That'd free up a few points that could used to get units that are better able to support the dragon.

This is also why I wanted to allow flyers to charge from airborne, instead of having to land.  It'd make the flyers (especially dragons) less finicky for people to use, so they'd feel more right.  However that idea didn't find any traction (and even if I wanted to revisit it, we're way too close to a release to get enough playtesting).
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House Rules, Unofficial Variants and Proposals / Re: On Dragon Fire
« Last post by GoIndy on April 17, 2018, 02:26:55 PM »
I'm remembering using my ancient red on an Elephant, and if someone had suggested to Ron I got more dice, he might have throttled them on the spot. 

Of course, I do think Dragons cost too much, so suits me fine to give them more dice.
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Hannibal on April 17, 2018, 12:30:08 PM »
Yeah, I agree with Kevin.  They're still 170pts at 3-1-2, so even though the Slavetakers are still a bit min-maxed, they can easily be neutralized by a cheap spear unit.

I still think when it comes to Dark Elves there needs to be a more pronounced game effect of that caste system they have.  One thing I floated a while back was that they have a Command Card limitation on units of weaker blood, to show that the DE lords really don't care about their underlings.

Slaves would have no checkbox ability (like now) and you can't play any cards on them.

Lowbloods have no checkbox and pitch-to-play any Command Card on them.

Halfbloods have Pain Touch, and pitch-to-play Red or Blue Command Cards on them.  (Green is no penalty)

High Bloods have Pain Touch, and pitch-to-play Blue cards.  (Red & Green is no penalty)

Purebloods:  have Pain Touch & no CC restrictions.


(This isn't a concrete proposal, just an example)
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Kevin on April 17, 2018, 10:02:45 AM »
IMHO the single, clean fix is fine.  They'd still be the most expensive 4-die cavalry unit in the game (not counting HE chariots), so certainly wouldn't be overpowered for their cost.
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by RushAss on April 16, 2018, 03:02:02 PM »
2-2-2:  Antonians, Hawk Scouts, HE Bowriders, Wildmen Horse Archers, Allied Greek Cavalry, Satrapal Cavalry, Saka Horse Archers

You made a typo here.  It should read:
2-2-2:  Awesome Death Rockets that thankfully allied themselves with the Dwarves, Hawk Scouts, HE Bowriders, Wildmen Horse Archers, Allied Greek Cavalry, Satrapal Cavalry, Saka Horse Archers

I'm a fan of knocking a yellow hit box off of the Slave Takers.  3-1-2 would work IMO.  The crummy part about that is that it would actually make the bastards cheaper and knock them below 170 points.  If we wanted to keep the unit at a higher cost perhaps we entertain the thought of adding an attack die to the profile to up it to (5) 5/5.  That would certainly give them a glass cannon feel.

I've been ruminating on the Lashmistress.  Not so much on the mechanics of the unit itself, but what it actually represents.  I've always had a hard time swallowing the concept of a single (or handful of) sorcerous lady (or ladies) with an escort of soldiers performing the way it does on the battlefield.  What is it that causes an enemy unit to head straight for them?  The term "Siren's Song" implies a magical charming type of effect.  I can totally get behind that in a role playing situation but in a war game it just feels out of place.  Like a nice try at flavor that sort of fell flat.  I'm thinking it may be worth exploring a replacement unit.  That would be challenging because I'd like to keep some sort of sourcerous feel to them but they can't step on the toes of the Lords of Dusk or the Coven.  I'd like to preserve the line unit/special magic utility unit feel.One idea I had was that a target enemy line unit would become Impulsive once the range to the HE unit reached 7".  And maybe we'd give it something very similar to a Crossbow type ranged attack to preserve the feel that the sorcerous energies do more than just effect the movement of enemy troops, but they do some damage as well.  Any thoughts on that?
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Kevin on April 16, 2018, 02:59:41 PM »
Yeah, I like 3-1-2 as well.

Plus the flavor:  "Hey.  WE take the slaves!  These people are fighting back and we're probably going to lose--screw this!"   ;D
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Hannibal on April 16, 2018, 02:37:18 PM »
Not really here-or-there, but whichever box gets knocked off Slave Takers there's precedent.

A list I could come up with:

3-2-1:  Hawk Light cavalry (soon to be Lancers), Stag Cavalry, Spanish Cavalry, Gallic Cavalry, Thessalian Cavalry, Sarrisophoroi

3-1-2:  Roman cav (Equites, Italian Cav, Vet Equites), Jun Horse Archers

2-2-2:  Antonians, Hawk Scouts, HE Bowriders, Wildmen Horse Archers, Allied Greek Cavalry, Satrapal Cavalry, Saka Horse Archers

2-2-1:  Skeleton Cavalry, Wolf Riders

This is another reason I like the 3-1-2 stat boxes.  Not only does it dovetail pretty well with their attack dice & the theme of "bully Dark Elves," but it's design space that isn't crowded.
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Kevin on April 16, 2018, 01:58:38 PM »
Not really here-or-there, but whichever box gets knocked off Slave Takers there's precedent.

3-2-1:  Many!  Hawkshold, Stags, pretty sure Skeletons and Carthaginian cav.
3-1-2:  Roman cav.
2-2-2:  Antonians.
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