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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by gornhorror on April 16, 2018, 12:24:54 PM »
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Problem is, at that point, the ability is pretty garbage and just a gimmick. Simpler to just remove the unit.
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Siren's call would not be garbage if you had to spend a command action to stop it.  Yes most people would probably use that command action to make it not happen, but it would still hurt because of the command action drain.  Given the Lashmistress' stats and cost, I would still very much consider playing the unit if I chose to play Dark Elves.  Her ranged attack is still good, her engaged attack is still good and she can mess up your day if you don't spend that command action to stop her ability.  Having no way to stop it, makes the ability broken. 
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by gornhorror on April 16, 2018, 12:07:09 PM »
Naw, they should have the green box removed.   A unit that does not call itself heavy cavalry and can move speed 7" should not have 3 green boxes.   It makes them able to weather the storm too well on the charge turn.  Which they shouldn't be able to do.

I also never liked this theme with the historical armies cavalry units that Fingolfin's post alluded to.   
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Move & Shoot
« Last post by Joe Kundlak on April 16, 2018, 04:00:21 AM »
Thx Kevin!
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Hannibal on April 15, 2018, 11:37:28 PM »
I agree with Kevin that 4 dice and 7 boxes is kind of weird.  One of the reasons I like taking away the Yellow box is it matches how they'd perform on the charge.  Being a 4 die unit, they will get +2 dice on the charge in the Green but only +1 die when in the Yellow/Red.  So the 3G/1Y/2R syncs up with the 4 attack dice vibe that they hit hard, but can't really hang in there for an extended fight.
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Kevin on April 14, 2018, 09:26:11 AM »
Kind of a minor thing, but what bugs me about the Slave Takers is that they only get 4 attack dice but have 7 boxes.  I generally view that both attack dice and hit boxes are more-or-less a function of how many soldiers are in the unit.  (e.g. Phalanx units have more attack dice and more hit boxes than typical infantry.  Cavalry units have fewer hit boxes than typical infantry (Yeah they often have more attack dice, but IMHO that's because each person on a horse is deadlier.)   

They don't have to line up perfectly, but Slave Takers are the only unit in the game that has (for cavalry) above-average hit boxes and below-average attack dice--and I really don't see what sort of flavor explanation justifies that.  Simplest fix is to knock off a hit box; I don't care which color.
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House Rules, Unofficial Variants and Proposals / On Dragon Fire
« Last post by Fingolfin on April 14, 2018, 03:18:29 AM »
I was watching some Game of Thrones clips the other day, and they got me thinking. Dragon fire, as it exists in Battleground, kinda sucks. Think of Smaug or Drogon. They can level entire units in a single blast of fire. An Ancient Red Dragon, if it uses both its flame attacks on a unit with a 2/2 defense, will do about 8 damage, probably less do to Command Cards. Not that much considering its cost. A Red Dragon will do less, about 5-6 damage, again probably less do to Blue Cards. So, my proposal is simple. Give Dragons 1 or 2 extra dice on their flame attacks. I think +2 dice would be good, maybe too good, so I could definitely see +1 die. This would be a minor buff to Dragons, but I tend to think that is fine, given how hard it is to use them efficiently.
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by Fingolfin on April 14, 2018, 03:06:58 AM »
Sorry for the late response.

I agree with the slave warriors.  They shouldn't be core and the spears make them too powerful against cavalry/large.  I like the the 5/4/5 1/1 profile.

I should note that I kept them Core. I don't think that it is unfair to have a cheap Core unit in the faction, especially with the changes I made to the unit and the faction.

The Slavetakers unit always has been too optimized.  7" move, core, all cavalry bonuses(defense and offense), impact hit, 3 green box stat bar and good damage doing faction ability.  Also base 12 courage.  I would change their stat bar differently.  I would make it a 2/2/2.   Light fast cavalry shouldn't have 3 green boxes if that's the maximum medium and heavy cavalry get.

Alexander has a 3 green, 7" mover, so there is a precedent for it.

I would keep the highblood blades.  They are a fine unit.

The reason I removed them is because I was trying to make the DE more half-elf reliant. Without a Core Highblood generalist unit, it gives the faction a the weakness of having no real medium/heavy infantry, and no above average unit that is Core.

I have always hated the lashmistress ability.  I think it's broken.  What about this for her ability?  What if it changed the units standing order to "close on lashmistress".   You could take direct control or change it's orders on your turn to stop it from moving into it's own death.  No more pulling a unit closer on it's turn. 

Problem is, at that point, the ability is pretty garbage and just a gimmick. Simpler to just remove the unit.

Drake Riders cause all kinds of havoc because they fly...Not sure if they need any kind of boost.  I wouldn't change them

I would argue that the change I made is actually a nerf. Sure, they have more stats, but they are far less optimized for the "fly around and pinch" role. They would inherit the "dragon problem", too expensive to fly around and maneuver to get the perfect flank.

The unit with axes........sigh.....Elves don't use axes......:)

Precisely the point. Elves don't use axes, and I would imagine that the Dark Elves would take pleasure in giving half-elves, lesser beings, weapons unworthy of elves. Not to mention that it gives the DE a standard, non-spear, line unit.


The Dark Elves are faction that isn't just changing a couple of units.  They need a top-to-bottom rethinking of how their theme translates into rules & units.

What changes do you think are necessary?



I agree that like 3/4 of the units need to be adjusted but I don't think these guys need the wholesale rethink that the Dark Elves do.  A lot of things are minor changes that have ripple effects.  For example, something needs to be done about Skeletons but once we find that fix that's 2-3 units that get changed.  Zombies are too cheap for what they do, Ghouls need something like Wolfkin's rout defenses, I'm not sure we need two flavors of undead Troll, and so on.

Not sure I agree. They would still have no infantry breakthrough unit and be stupidly vulnerable to spears. However, if you are suggesting adding units to compensate for that kind of weakness, I would argue that that is already somewhat reworking the faction.

The feedback that I've gotten is that people love the randomness and the faction could use more, not less.  People like special rules and Orcs are seen by many as the place for black comedy.  One or two units aside, Orcs are fine from a balance perspective.  What they need is more "fun" stuff.

For example, I'd love to see a Swarm rule.  Something like "O:(+1)+0/+0 when attacking a unit engaged with 2 or more units with this keyword."  Then slap it on every 'Goblin' unit (and maybe Trolls, because Trolls & Goblins go together).

Eh, fair enough. I like the Swarm idea; however, maybe it would make for sense to save it for a different faction.

I used to hate the 7G-7R statline, but I've come around to it.  I think Regeneration is fine (although way overpriced).  The problem is that Trolls stay in the box because they're a D:1/3, Large unit (which makes them vulnerable to spears) and pay a lot for Pow 7 with a mediocre Off Skill (which means a unit like HE Battle Squads can pin them down).  In a faction with a lot of Power boosted units.


We're working on toning down spears and if we give the Trolls a price reduction that'd help.  But this is another place for a "fun" rule.  I'd like to do some kind of "gobble them up" or "acid vomit" kind of attack that the Troll makes instead of it's regular attack.  It'd be fewer attacks but maybe they'd be automatic hits (like impact hits) that you can only use once or twice in a game.  That'd prevent a battle squad from tying them down and introduce a little bit of flavor into the unit.

I would have some concerns about special attacks, as they strike me more as gimmicks than anything else; however, I can maybe see some sort of special attack making trolls worth taking over Axemen.

Trolls are freakin' awesome.  They just need regeneration fixed.  I think that they should regenerate a hit box EVERY m&c phase when engaged, and every other turn when not.

They would still have the problem of being a 1/3, 5/5/7 large unit in a power faction. Maybe fixing regeneration wound make them worthwhile, but I am still unsure.

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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Move & Shoot
« Last post by Kevin on April 12, 2018, 08:18:00 AM »
In the orders circle, write "M+S".  (If you capped a unit at 2.5" you'd write "2.5" there.)
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Move & Shoot
« Last post by Joe Kundlak on April 12, 2018, 03:44:45 AM »
HI folks,

I might be dense, but how do you mark the Move&Shoot modifier on a unit?
Does it have a dedicated shortcut, or it's more free-form for the player to decide?

The reason is I am creating my own Rules Summary document for my translated rules, so wanted to have all details covered...
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General Battleground: Fantasy Warfare Discussion / Re: Faction Re-release Ideas
« Last post by gornhorror on April 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM »
Trolls are freakin' awesome.  They just need regeneration fixed.  I think that they should regenerate a hit box EVERY m&c phase when engaged, and every other turn when not.
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