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Battleground: Fantasy and Historical Warfare => Scenarios => Topic started by: Bloodaxe on February 12, 2011, 09:07:01 PM

Title: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: Bloodaxe on February 12, 2011, 09:07:01 PM
I was kicking some ideas around for this. I could base it on the boardgame from GW.

Medium sized army of Wood Elves, smaller armies of Men/Dwarves.

Large force of mounted Orcs/Goblins arrive first. Later the Orc/Goblin infantry.

Thorin can join the battle. (Longbeards?)
Then Beorn the giant werebear.
Then Eagles. (??)
Title: Re: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: RushAss on March 23, 2011, 11:27:07 AM
I think somebody posted something about this a couple of years back and they also mentioned using Longbeards to reflect the Dwarves.  I think we'd have to take a few liberties to make it workable as well as even more fun.  You are on the right track, I'll just toss in my ideas

Ravenwood elves - mostly core units with emphasis on archery.

Lakemen - Mostly Militia, Bowmen, and a Swordsmen unit or two.  Maybe Scouts as well?

Orcs - A reasonable mix, but at least half of the units should be goblins.  Heavy on the Wolf Riders!

Beorn - Bear Pack acting like a normal unit.  In other words, you can change standing orders and direct control this unit.  Still no command cards.

Dwarves - Longbeards.  To be honest, I think that 13-14 Dwarves does not a unit make.  And not all of the guys in that group where Longbeard status, so this is clearly taking a liberty.  Maybe Axemen would be more realistic for the purists?

Eagles - We're really going to have to jimmy this.  In fact, we'll need to create a rule for airborne units fighting ground units to represent the Eagles swooping down upon the enemy*  I'd say use a couple units of Drake Riders to represent the Eagles.  I think their stats would be pretty close.

Screw it, have an Ancient Red Dragon show up on the 8th turn to reclaim his treasure.  We'll say that Bard the Bowman's shot only injured Smaug, but didn't kill him.  The Dragon will be deployed at a randomly picked location on the map and will be set to close on the nearest unit regardless of faction.  This will add an interesting element where some enemies may actually have to team up to stop the rampage.

*Rules for flying units to engage ground units without actually landing: 
- Flying unit must have a Close standing order to use this rule.
- The Flying unit must end the turn with one of it's center points lined up with one of the enemy unit's center points.  If this is not possible due to adjacent units (whether they be friendly units or enemy units), then the Flying unit must be placed on top of the target unit.
- The Flying unit may make a melee attack on the target unit FOR THE CURRENT TURN ONLY.  The next turn the flying unit must fly away and cannot engage another unit until the turn after that.  So - turn x Flying unit engages, turn x+1 flying unit flies off - turn x+2 Flying unit may re-engage.
- The flying unit gets the High ground combat modifier during the melee attack.  The flying unit counts as charging cavalry in regards to defensive stats (like the 2/2 on our Drake Riders will become a 3/2 for this kind of attack).  No impact hits.
- The enemy unit gets a return attack at a (-1) 0/0.

Maybe we should call this the Swooping rule?
Title: Re: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: gull2112 on March 23, 2011, 06:41:17 PM
To scale successfully, you want to say there is a powerful unit of dwarves, so the Longbeards would be appropriate. It is tough to take a fantasy battle like this and come up with an exact Order of Battle. Just mix units in until the feel is right. The Hobbit was basically a children's book and the Dwarves were acting like frightened bullies for most of the story and then they suddenly become heroic during the battle. It is sometimes hard to keep all this in perspective when you've read the Hobbit first, then the LOTR, and then The Silmarillion.

Personally, I would play with sudden death saying the Goblins have X turns to overwhelm the defenders and get in the mountain before the eagles show up and decide the battle. For tension, you could have Bearn show up at some random turn and the eagles show up randomly after that. Bearn could be as Marcus suggested and the eagles wouldn't actually ever be placed on the board, just end the game the turn they show up.
Title: Re: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: RushAss on March 24, 2011, 11:26:06 AM
The sudden death thing can also work.  There's really no "right" or "wrong" way to do something like this as long as you have fun.  I wonder if YMG would ever release another scenario book strictly full of scenarios based upon fantasy films an books.  Could you imagine what the battle of Pelenor Fields would be like?  Or screw that, how about one of the epic battles from Middle Earth's 1st age of the sun as detailed in the Silmarilion?  You;d probably need multiple maps for that.
Title: Re: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: gull2112 on March 24, 2011, 06:22:19 PM
When James and I get around to putting the finishing touches on the Siege expansion we will have to include Angband. :o
Title: Re: Battle of 5 Armies scenario?? Suggestions??
Post by: gull2112 on April 24, 2011, 05:42:26 PM
 I reread the description in the Redbook of West March, of the Battle of Five Armies, and came to the conclusion that you really couldn't simulate it in any meaningful and fun way with the BG system.

One of the reasons that it is an exciting battle to read is because when all seems lost (or settled) an unexpected event occurs. In a game this just won't work. Either you know when the reinforcement/event is going to occur, or you make it random. If you know when its going to occur that kind of ennervates the tension, and in any event changes the very nature of the battle, and if you have events at random, then the battle can be very one sided, and that isn't any fun at all.

Another reason, is that you have reinforcements coming in from all sides of the battle, easy enough in a game designed specifically to simulate TBoFA, but it doesn't really work on a standard BG map. If you modify it to fit within the specs of a standard BG game, meaning two armies facing off against each other from opposite sides of the board, but using accurate OoBs, you are going to drastically lose the essence of the battle.

You might be able to do it as a campaign game where each phase of the battle is fought as its own game, with a decisive victory at any point deciding the battle, but once again, it is all rather moot because eventually Gwaihir and the boys show up and decide the battle anyway. Remember, the eagles didn't show up to rescue the free people, they showed up for their own reasons and just happened to appear in the nick of time.