Author Topic: High Elves Units and Tactics  (Read 24899 times)

GoIndy

  • Playtester
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 562
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2014, 02:58:38 PM »
This is humorous, because everytime I hear stuff like this, I think of spoils.  I had spoils, both boxes marked, on one of my units in a game this weekend.  I promptly failed.  Now THAT's BS. 

Anyway, back to oathbound.  Hell, I think that card is decent.  The biggest weakness is that you have to play it proactively instead of reactive.  (which, I'll agree, is a big difference)  I wouldn't change it at all.

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3872
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2014, 03:30:24 PM »
The issue I see with Oathbound is that it can either be incredible or mediocre.  It's seldom "decent".

Incredible = You have to roll multiple courage checks this turn.  Especially awesome if it's 3 or more.  Also awesome if your Undead opponent plays Wave of Terror and you've got a ton of engaged units.

Mediocre = You only have 1 courage check.  Even worse if you only have one courage check on a critical unit but you know you're probably going to have multiple courage checks next turn.  But you really need that one unit to pass it's courage check now...
"We are young wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time"
-Rush, Dreamline

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
Re: Repost: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2014, 03:31:30 PM »
High Elves have expensive units, so that means that you will have less units.  Therefore, it is more important for their units NOT to rout.  A High Elf Elderblade Swordsmen unit routing is catastrophic and a unit of goblins routing usually isn't.

I don't agree with that at all.  I think that the context is much more important.  If those Goblins are right next to some Orc Axemen that are about to get pinched and the EB Swordsmen have only relatively unimportant Battle Squads next to them, then the Goblins routing is much more catastrophic.  In fact, I often target Goblins as the weak point to hit so that I can start flanking & pinching the Orc line.


Quote
Factions that have many cheap units(i.e historicals) with command cards that help with courage, in my opinion have a great advantage over factions that don't.   That's where the trend is obviously going in this game. 

Actually, I'd argue the opposite.  With the flank-from-front gone and the dice charge, the game seems to be trending away from swarm armies.


Quote
Just like you said, it would only be two cards in the deck.  Oathbound should be changed.

It would be two cards that would boost an already very powerful faction.  And I have yet to see evidence that this faction is in need of that boost.

If I may ask, what happened in your games?  How did you use (or not use) Oathbound?  Was it a case of failing a check after Oathbound was used?  Or not playing it and then failing the Cge 13 check?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 01:23:11 AM by Hannibal »

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2018, 08:32:04 AM »
I'm wondering if the configuration of the High Elf Spearmen unit could be changed.  It seems as though that unit stays in the box with most builds. Maybe it could be changed to something like this:

(5) 6/5  3/2 R-0 C-12 M-3.5"  5G/2Y/2R

(+1/+2 vs. cavalry, large)

Or whatever.

Just a thought.  It's current cost of 334 points is quit prohibitive.  Especially in this faction where everything is quit expensive.

Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3872
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2018, 04:31:35 PM »
Yeah, HE Spears where always the kind of unit I wanted to fit into a build, but could rarely justify actually doing it.  I rarely use them and I rarely see others use them.
"We are young wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time"
-Rush, Dreamline

Hannibal

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2018, 06:19:09 PM »
And I don't think there's going to be a fix for that.  Any high elf spear unit is going to be at least 300pts.  There's just no getting around units with stats like that costing any less.  And for that amount of points, it can't sit back and play the "come at me bro" game with other units.  It needs to get stuck in and start earning its points.

But when you factor in the effectiveness of Elder Blade units for not much more in points, the HE Spearmen just don't seem like a good investment.  If you want High Elf spearmen to be seen then they have to be like Battle Squads. 

Or we need to give Cygnets spears.  That's been my vote for a long time.

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2018, 08:45:04 PM »
Ok then.

What about this:

(3) 6/5  3/2 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" 3G/3Y/2R

Keyword: Spears

Something weird like (+2) when holding with all the spear bonuses.

You could even make them M-5" like those historical guys......Agemi or something like that. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:37:59 AM by gornhorror »
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2018, 08:48:04 AM »
I had an idea for a cheap unit that would make sense in the high elf army.  Since High Elves are more regimented and organized than their cousins the Wood Elves, perhaps they would have kennels with trained Cooshie (Elven dogs).


Cooshie Pack

(3) 6/5 2/2  R-O  C-13 M-5  3G/2Y/2R

Give them the Wolfkin ability (+3 def., +2 vs. routing, reform)

Woof, Woof...



Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3872
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2018, 04:07:46 PM »
I had an idea for a cheap unit that would make sense in the high elf army.  Since High Elves are more regimented and organized than their cousins the Wood Elves, perhaps they would have kennels with trained Cooshie (Elven dogs).

Cooshie Pack

(3) 6/5 2/2  R-O  C-13 M-5  3G/2Y/2R

Give them the Wolfkin ability (+3 def., +2 vs. routing, reform)

Woof, Woof...

Cool idea, but I think we can come up with a better name for the unit than that.  Yeah yeah yeah, I know the old D&D Coshies.  But I think think we should aim for something along the lines of Elf Hounds, Eldar Hounds... something like that.
"We are young wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time"
-Rush, Dreamline

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2018, 11:38:07 PM »
I had an idea for a cheap unit that would make sense in the high elf army.  Since High Elves are more regimented and organized than their cousins the Wood Elves, perhaps they would have kennels with trained Cooshie (Elven dogs).

Cooshie Pack

(3) 6/5 2/2  R-O  C-13 M-5  3G/2Y/2R

Give them the Wolfkin ability (+3 def., +2 vs. routing, reform)

Woof, Woof...

Cool idea, but I think we can come up with a better name for the unit than that.  Yeah yeah yeah, I know the old D&D Coshies.  But I think think we should aim for something along the lines of Elf Hounds, Eldar Hounds... something like that.

Vu le vu cooshie a vec mwa ses swah!!!!
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2018, 10:59:51 AM »
Here's another permeation of the COOSHIE PACK!!!!!


(5) 5/4 2/2  R-O  C-13 M-5  3G/4Y/3R

Not as much bite, but definitely more durable.
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

Karasu

  • Playtester
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2018, 11:03:32 AM »
Ok then.

What about this:

(3) 6/5  3/2 R-0 C-13 M-3.5" 3G/3Y/2R

Keyword: Spears

Something weird like (+2) when holding with all the spear bonuses.

You could even make them M-5" like those historical guys......Agemi or something like that.

Why would you need to have the (+2) when holding, and where would it come from?  If this is supposed to be a spear-armed battle squad, there wouldn't be enough people to get to 6 dice.  If you want dice from High Elves, you've got Rangers.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to give them MC 5" and sprint.  The already have +1T over Agema, which I guess would put them at ~250 points.

gornhorror

  • Rules Team
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
  • Goony goo-goo!
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2018, 03:37:55 PM »
My point is that I just wish that the spear unit could be modified so it's a little cheaper.  This unit is very seldom taken because it's cost is prohibitive.
Where's this shade, that you got it made?

RushAss

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3872
  • Eat your beets - Recycle!
    • My Facebook.  Where you can see my, uh... face.
Re: High Elves Units and Tactics
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2018, 06:09:54 PM »
I agree.  HE Spears are one of the most difficult units to justify including in an army in the entire game.
"We are young wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time"
-Rush, Dreamline